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Terms of Use have been amended effective October 6, 2019. Make sure you are aware of the new rules! Please visit this thread for details: https://www.mibuzzboard.com/phpBB3/view ... 16&t=48619
This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
Didn't know "we" passed another law allowing Civil Forfeiture!! This BS needs to stop. Any of these kinds of funds seized should be returned if there isn't a criminal conviction connected with the seizure!!
New Michigan Law Lets Cops Seize Cash At Airports, No Crime Required
Although summer travel is heating up, anyone traveling with cash may want to think twice about flying in and out of Michigan. Late last month, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer signed two bills (HB 4631 and HB 4632) that expand civil forfeiture at airports, making it much easier for law enforcement to seize—and permanently keep—cash and other valuables from travelers.
“Allowing authorities to take air travelers’ cash without a criminal conviction, simply because they have a large sum of money, is a blatant violation of their rights,” said Institute for Justice Senior Attorney Dan Alban, who co-leads IJ’s National Initiative to End Forfeiture Abuse. “This will lead to innocent people losing their money and is a massive step in the wrong direction by Michigan lawmakers.”
more here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibill ... 6d60295418
New Michigan Law Lets Cops Seize Cash At Airports, No Crime Required
Although summer travel is heating up, anyone traveling with cash may want to think twice about flying in and out of Michigan. Late last month, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer signed two bills (HB 4631 and HB 4632) that expand civil forfeiture at airports, making it much easier for law enforcement to seize—and permanently keep—cash and other valuables from travelers.
“Allowing authorities to take air travelers’ cash without a criminal conviction, simply because they have a large sum of money, is a blatant violation of their rights,” said Institute for Justice Senior Attorney Dan Alban, who co-leads IJ’s National Initiative to End Forfeiture Abuse. “This will lead to innocent people losing their money and is a massive step in the wrong direction by Michigan lawmakers.”
more here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibill ... 6d60295418
- MotorCityRadioFreak
- Posts: 6547
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:26 am
- Location: Warren, MI
Re: This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
This law ignores the amendment to the Michigan Constitution that we voted on and passed. They need a warrant. The victims need to sue if the authorities cannot show cause.
They/them, non-binary and proud.
Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.
Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.
- audiophile
- Posts: 8649
- Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:21 pm
- Location: Between 88 and 108 MHz.
Re: This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
Another reason not to fly...
Meanwhile while the governor takes private jets for $30,000 a pop, taken inappropriately from her election fund...
Meanwhile while the governor takes private jets for $30,000 a pop, taken inappropriately from her election fund...
Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!
- craig11152
- Posts: 2070
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:15 am
- Location: Ann Arbor
Re: This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
Here is a links to the two bills. They are only two pages each.
I read them and it doesn't appear to me they give the power described above by any means.
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/document ... B-4631.pdf
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/document ... B-4632.pdf
I read them and it doesn't appear to me they give the power described above by any means.
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/document ... B-4631.pdf
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/document ... B-4632.pdf
I no longer directly engage trolls
Re: This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
OK, IANAL but...craig11152 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:23 amHere is a links to the two bills. They are only two pages each.
I read them and it doesn't appear to me they give the power described above by any means.
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/document ... B-4631.pdf
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/document ... B-4632.pdf
The first one basically says "property may be seized ... but is not subject to forfeiture" but then adds "This section does not apply ... if .... the seizure of property by law enforcement officers appointed by a public airport authority "
The second one is about seizures related to section 7251 of the same law (Public Health Act 368) but it also stipulates "This section does not apply ... if .... the seizure of property by law enforcement officers appointed by a public airport authority "
Why are they excluding seizures that are done by airport authorities??
What I do find interesting is that both tie to 1978 PA 368, "PUBLIC HEALTH CODE" which appears to be to "protect and promote the public health" and "to regulate occupations, facilities, and agencies affecting the public health" and "to regulate health maintenance organizations". Seems like ANY forfeitures should be directly related to THOSE kind of issues and none
other.
Re: This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
So are you suggesting that you don't like supporting law enforcement?
These laws were created for one specific reason: to help law enforcement Target very high profile drug trafficking.
Seems like some of you want to have it both ways.
These laws were created for one specific reason: to help law enforcement Target very high profile drug trafficking.
Seems like some of you want to have it both ways.
“Blessed are those who are righteous in his name.”
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.
Re: This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
Only idiots don't fly...audiophile wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:26 amAnother reason not to fly...
Meanwhile while the governor takes private jets for $30,000 a pop, taken inappropriately from her election fund...
Voting for Trump is dumber than playing Russian Roulette with fully loaded chambers.
Re: This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
I have come to believe Audiophile is Amish. I don't understand how being on a computer fits, but definitely Amish.Matt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:37 pmOnly idiots don't fly...audiophile wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:26 amAnother reason not to fly...
Meanwhile while the governor takes private jets for $30,000 a pop, taken inappropriately from her election fund...
“Blessed are those who are righteous in his name.”
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.
- MotorCityRadioFreak
- Posts: 6547
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:26 am
- Location: Warren, MI
Re: This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
Definitely not true.TC Talks wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:32 pmI have come to believe Audiophile is Amish. I don't understand how being on a computer fits, but definitely Amish.Matt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:37 pmOnly idiots don't fly...audiophile wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:26 amAnother reason not to fly...
Meanwhile while the governor takes private jets for $30,000 a pop, taken inappropriately from her election fund...
They/them, non-binary and proud.
Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.
Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.
- audiophile
- Posts: 8649
- Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:21 pm
- Location: Between 88 and 108 MHz.
Re: This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
Thanks MCRF!MotorCityRadioFreak wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:00 pmDefinitely not true.TC Talks wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:32 pmI have come to believe Audiophile is Amish. I don't understand how being on a computer fits, but definitely Amish.Matt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:37 pmOnly idiots don't fly...audiophile wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:26 amAnother reason not to fly...
Meanwhile while the governor takes private jets for $30,000 a pop, taken inappropriately from her election fund...
This whole Amish thing is making me LOL.
I do fly, but only when there is no other way.
I would never trade the monster diesel sipping car for cramped seat and body a pat down on a fly-by-wire plane..
Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!
Re: This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
I don't have any problem with the seizures if they are connected to illegal activity. It's when there's NO CONNECTION or even NO PROVEN CONNECTION that's the issue. They can seize just because they think it's "too much" for an individual to have and consider it suspicious. Nevermind that there is NO data and NO history of that individual being involved in ANY criminal activity of ANY kind.
Here's another case that's currently being fought. Only fought though because it involves a LOT of money and a LOT of wealthy folks with the resources to try and fight it. "Normal" folks wouldn't have a chance. I'll acknowledge there might be SOME folks in this case that deserve to have these assets seized, but really in this case the "authorities" are on a fishing expedition to see what they can find, rather than looking for evidence tied to crimes they're prosecuting or investigating. I really wonder if ANY of the Feds involved in this will be held accountable for their actions regardless if the assets are returned to their owners?
FBI Seizes $86 Million From Safe-Deposit Boxes, "Permanently Confiscated"
The FBI raided nearly 1,400 safe-deposit boxes at the U.S. Private Vaults store in Beverly Hills.
The Feds rummaged through the personal belongings of a jazz saxophone player, an interior designer, a retired doctor, two Century City lawyers, a flooring contractor, and hundreds of others. They took photos of items like password lists, credit cards, prenuptial agreements, pay stubs, immigration and vaccination records, heirlooms, bank statements, and even a will. Agents even discovered cremated human remains in one of the boxes.
Newly unsealed court documents have shown that FBI agents misled the judge who signed the warrant to raid the safe-deposit boxes. They did not disclose the fact that they planned to permanently confiscate everything inside every box that had at least $5,000 in cash or goods. The justification for the confiscation was the presumption that hundreds of unknown box holders were storing assets that may or may not be tied to unknown crimes. It took a total of five days for agents to finish filling their evidence bags. They collected more than $86 million in cash, gold, silver, rare coins, gem-studded jewelry, and plenty of expensive watches. The U.S. attorney's office tried to block public disclosure of court papers that exposed the deception, but the judge rejected the request to keep the documents sealed.
The deception originally came to light in FBI documents and depositions of agents in class action lawsuits by box holders who claim the raid violated their rights. Court filings also revealed that the federal agents defied restrictions put in place by U.S. Magistrate Judge Steve Kim by searching through the owners' belongings for evidence of crimes.
Robert Frommer, a lawyer who is representing nearly 400 of the box holders, had this to say about the situation:
"The government did not know what was in those boxes, who owned them, or what, if anything, those people had done. That's why the warrant application did not even attempt to argue there was probable cause to seize and forfeit box renters' property."
The two-year investigation opened in 2019. The FBI LA office leaders believed that U.S. Private Vaults had become a magnet for criminals hiding their stolen goods in their boxes. The business was formally charged with conspiracy to sell drugs and launder money.
The FBI and the U.S. attorney's office deny any wrongdoing, saying that they had no obligation to disclose their plans for indiscriminate confiscation to the judge. They defended their actions on the blanket assumption that every customer was hiding crime-tainted assets.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...bep_csid=57521
Re: This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
That's why we have the court system...
How many people of color get arrested just for the color of their skin? I haven't once seen you express outrage about that atrocity and they are much less capable of getting out of jail then these people storing millions of dollars in a safety deposit box.
You seem to have a two-part sense of Injustice.
How many people of color get arrested just for the color of their skin? I haven't once seen you express outrage about that atrocity and they are much less capable of getting out of jail then these people storing millions of dollars in a safety deposit box.
You seem to have a two-part sense of Injustice.
“Blessed are those who are righteous in his name.”
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.
- MWmetalhead
- Site Admin
- Posts: 12295
- Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:23 am
Re: This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
Civil asset forfeiture has been abused for far too long by law enforcement agencies.
100% agree with km1125 here.
We also need to dramatically overhaul so-called "Qualified Immunity." That concept has been applied much more broadly than the Supreme Court likely envisioned when it ruled on the question in the early 80's. Government officials or employees who willfully harm others need to be held to the same criminal and tort standards as the common citizen.
100% agree with km1125 here.
We also need to dramatically overhaul so-called "Qualified Immunity." That concept has been applied much more broadly than the Supreme Court likely envisioned when it ruled on the question in the early 80's. Government officials or employees who willfully harm others need to be held to the same criminal and tort standards as the common citizen.
Morgan Wallen is a piece of garbage.
Re: This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
I don't think the Qualified Immunity really protects them rom criminal charges, but that's up to the prosecutor to pursue and many don't because of their working relationships. They are limited (or barred) from tort/civil actions though and, while that might need to be modified, is there for an important reason.MWmetalhead wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:30 pmCivil asset forfeiture has been abused for far too long by law enforcement agencies.
100% agree with km1125 here.
We also need to dramatically overhaul so-called "Qualified Immunity." That concept has been applied much more broadly than the Supreme Court likely envisioned when it ruled on the question in the early 80's. Government officials or employees who willfully harm others need to be held to the same criminal and tort standards as the common citizen.
- MWmetalhead
- Site Admin
- Posts: 12295
- Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:23 am
Re: This Civil Forfeiture BS needs to stop!!
Those working in an official capacity, in most cases, should not have greater legal protection than the ordinary citizen.
I recognize that frivolous tort lawsuits is a risk. The way to dissuade those is to have penalties for litigants and lawyers who file such lawsuits.
I recognize that frivolous tort lawsuits is a risk. The way to dissuade those is to have penalties for litigants and lawyers who file such lawsuits.
Morgan Wallen is a piece of garbage.