SCOTUS puts conservatives in a corner again.

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As somebody who has around $70,000 in student loans around his neck that I had no real concept for what I was buying at 18 and out on my own…

My thought has been bail them out...

So in your opinion, other people should be responsible for paying for your dumb decisions?

You must want to work in cable news or something. You ignored the rest of my reasoning. Unfortunately for you the rest of that reasoning is important to what I said. I am arguing that it should be reset and limits should be put on it so this never happens again. There is an inherent absurdity in 18 year olds starting down a path to an easy $75,000-$100,000 in debt without a concrete idea of what they want to do or a plan. Not everybody has a large group of people behind them who can help them make the perfect decision. That’s how a lot of these people are getting caught up in this… a societal pressure to get an education or you’ll never amount to anything more than a person at the end of a freeway ramp with a cardboard sign and a lack of good planning and support to do such planning. I mean would we sell an 18 year old a starter home with no money down?

If you want to earn your money back that you contributed to this collect all the coins you find on the ground for a year and you’ll get there. The “I don’t want to pay for your mistakes” line is actually pretty dumb. The amount of money that went from your taxes towards this as an individual is infinitesimal… the way some people are reacting to this you’d think you paid $20,000 directly to someone right out of YOUR taxes for the year. The numbers we are talking about simply don’t allow an argument like this to work. Even better is if this comes out of the part that is tacked on to the national debt. Either way you pay the same amount in taxes to the government and they decide what to do with it.

[bmw]

You must want to work in cable news or something. You ignored the rest of my reasoning. Unfortunately for you the rest of that reasoning is important to what I said. I am arguing that it should be reset and limits should be put on it so this never happens again.

I read everything you said - I just chose not to respond to your suggestion of tuition limits. I will agree that tuition is sky high and should be lower, but I'm not a proponent of government mandates in this regard. Frankly, I'm not a fan of government being involved in education, period, so colleges and universities shouldn't be getting any subsidies from the government, in my view.

As to your suggestion that debt forgiveness is a "reset," that's not exactly how it works. Debt can't just magically disappear. The only way debt can be gotten rid of is through paying it off. And so when you do forgive debt, -somebody- is paying for it. I find it difficult to justify making somebody who didn't incur the debt be responsible for paying it off as opposed to the person who actually incurred it.

There is an inherent absurdity in 18 year olds starting down a path to an easy $75,000-$100,000 in debt...

When it was recently suggested in here that maybe 18-year-olds shouldn't be allowed to vote, the responses were the typical clichés about going to war, having guns, etc.

Either you're an adult at 18 or you're not. You can't have the benefits of adulthood without the responsibilities.

The amount of money that went from your taxes towards this as an individual is infinitesimal… the way some people are reacting to this you’d think you paid $20,000 directly to someone right out of YOUR taxes for the year. The numbers we are talking about simply don’t allow an argument like this to work.

Now that is a really bad argument. Why? Because by that logic, I shouldn't have to pay taxes at all since my taxes are such an infinitesimal amount. Why should I spend countless hours in tax compliance when the money I'm ultimately going to send the feds doesn't even cover the amount of national debt we will incur in a tiny fraction of a second?

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You must want to work in cable news or something. You ignored the rest of my reasoning. Unfortunately for you the rest of that reasoning is important to what I said. I am arguing that it should be reset and limits should be put on it so this never happens again.

I read everything you said - I just chose not to respond to your suggestion of tuition limits. I will agree that tuition is sky high and should be lower, but I'm not a proponent of government mandates in this regard. Frankly, I'm not a fan of government being involved in education, period, so colleges and universities shouldn't be getting any subsidies from the government, in my view.

As to your suggestion that debt forgiveness is a "reset," that's not exactly how it works. Debt can't just magically disappear. The only way debt can be gotten rid of is through paying it off. And so when you do forgive debt, -somebody- is paying for it. I find it difficult to justify making somebody who didn't incur the debt be responsible for paying it off as opposed to the person who actually incurred it.

There is an inherent absurdity in 18 year olds starting down a path to an easy $75,000-$100,000 in debt...

When it was recently suggested in here that maybe 18-year-olds shouldn't be allowed to vote, the responses were the typical clichés about going to war, having guns, etc.

Either you're an adult at 18 or you're not. You can't have the benefits of adulthood without the responsibilities.

The amount of money that went from your taxes towards this as an individual is infinitesimal… the way some people are reacting to this you’d think you paid $20,000 directly to someone right out of YOUR taxes for the year. The numbers we are talking about simply don’t allow an argument like this to work.

Now that is a really bad argument. Why? Because by that logic, I shouldn't have to pay taxes at all since my taxes are such an infinitesimal amount. Why should I spend countless hours in tax compliance when the money I'm ultimately going to send the feds doesn't even cover the amount of national debt we will incur in a tiny fraction of a second?

No… you have to pay taxes. Nitpicking about exactly what it might go to is the bad faith argument. Some fraction of every persons taxes goes to every program every year. So what are you contributing to this small program? .50 Cents… a dollar? It’s some stupidly small amount. Forgive me if I break the news to you that you paid for 20 minutes of some guys algebra 101 class in his first semester. I’m not moved by crocodile tears about your tax dollars.

Debt can absolutely disappear. The person who loaned out the money accepts the loss and no longer seeks the money. Thus no debt. Paying it off or making them whole or whatever is a nicety essentially.

As for not liking price caps… sometimes they are needed. In the case that society is deciding school is needed but the price is having a verifiable negative effect on society something has to give. It’s no different than the border. You aren’t gonna round up all the illegals here and deport them. Forget it. What you can do is give the ones that are here amnesty AND simultaneously establish a large vetting facility where people are brought or go and they are legitimately registered and screened before they go onward. If you want to solve problems you have to think differently. Partying like it’s 1999 simply won’t get it done anymore.

An 18 year old can certainly fight, can hold and puff a cigarette and can think enough to check a box initially largely influenced by those around him… but are you selling that person anything of extreme value with loans handed out like candy with no guarantee it’ll amount to anything?

[zzand]

As I said I knew my opinion wouldn't be popular but I stand by it. You, in general, signed the papers and took the money and used it. No different than a mortgage or car loan. You have an obligation to pay it back so pay it back. If the debt is simply wiped out the message it sends is don't worry about making bad decisions someone will bail you out. I agree that tuition is too high but the government needs to stay out of education. Thankfully all three of my children are paying their loans back and don't want to be bailed out because they believe as I do that it is their responsibility to do so and they came to that conclusion on their own. My son has paid his off, oldest daughter will be paid off in the next four months and youngest in six months.

[bmw]

No… you have to pay taxes. Nitpicking about exactly what it might go to is the bad faith argument. Some fraction of every persons taxes goes to every program every year. So what are you contributing to this small program? .50 Cents… a dollar? It’s some stupidly small amount. Forgive me if I break the news to you that you paid for 20 minutes of some guys algebra 101 class in his first semester. I’m not moved by crocodile tears about your tax dollars.

You appear to not have understood my analogy. Your argument was that it was no big deal to wipe out the debt incurred by an 18-year-old college kid because in the larger scheme of things, that debt is divided up among the entire tax-paying populace, and thus is an infinitesimal amount for any one person to incur. I simply pointed out that the same could be said of any individual taxpayer who doesn't owe a particularly large amount in taxes - that in the larger scheme of things, given the sheer amount of money the government spends in a year, me not paying my taxes will quite literally go unnoticed. Maybe this is my bad for not further explaining, but my point was that we're not talking about wiping out the debt of just 1 person, but rather of hundreds of thousands or even millions. Sure - nobody would notice if one person didn't pay their taxes or if 1 person's debt got wiped clean, but multiply that by millions of people, and now it gets noticed.

Debt can absolutely disappear. The person who loaned out the money accepts the loss and no longer seeks the money. Thus no debt. Paying it off or making them whole or whatever is a nicety essentially.

In the case of student loans, at the end of the day, the person who took out the loan and didn't pay it back still received goods or services in exchange for that loaned money. Your teachers still got paid. The company who published your textbooks still got paid. Etc, etc. You make it sound like debt is some arbitrary, artificial number that only exists on paper. That's not true. Ultimately, you received goods and services at someone else's expense. So when the government forgives that debt, it is ultimately redistributing wealth, taking it from those who earned it and giving to those who didn't. Now you may be ok with that and you may try to justify it, but let's not pretend like that's not what is happening here.

[bmw]

...the government needs to stay out of education...

This, and subsidies and loans. I get tired of the argument others make of bUt SUbsIdIEs!!!!!!! Corporations get subsidies!!!! And tons of government money!!!! So let's use that to justify giving the little guy money too!!!!! How about we just stop giving freebies to everybody.

[TC Talks]

...the government needs to stay out of education...

This, and subsidies and loans. I get tired of the argument others make of bUt SUbsIdIEs!!!!!!! Corporations get subsidies!!!! And tons of government money!!!! So let's use that to justify giving the little guy money too!!!!! How about we just stop giving freebies to everybody.

You are advocating that we cut off subsides to corporations and agriculture?

[bmw]

You are advocating that we cut off subsides to corporations and agriculture?

Most of them, perhaps with the exception of disaster aid to agriculture, yes. But even there, I would prefer private insurance cover disasters.

[zzand]

I agree. Cut the subsides period. There is crop insurance for farmers. Last time we had a bad year in my area they got paid off at 695 dollars an acre. We are talking H*** farms. While not what they normally get for a season they were satisfied with the payout. Disaster assistance needs to stays but companies sink or swim on their own with no subsides. We don't get them in every day life and make it or break it on our own.

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No… you have to pay taxes. Nitpicking about exactly what it might go to is the bad faith argument. Some fraction of every persons taxes goes to every program every year. So what are you contributing to this small program? .50 Cents… a dollar? It’s some stupidly small amount. Forgive me if I break the news to you that you paid for 20 minutes of some guys algebra 101 class in his first semester. I’m not moved by crocodile tears about your tax dollars.

You appear to not have understood my analogy. Your argument was that it was no big deal to wipe out the debt incurred by an 18-year-old college kid because in the larger scheme of things, that debt is divided up among the entire tax-paying populace, and thus is an infinitesimal amount for any one person to incur. I simply pointed out that the same could be said of any individual taxpayer who doesn't owe a particularly large amount in taxes - that in the larger scheme of things, given the sheer amount of money the government spends in a year, me not paying my taxes will quite literally go unnoticed. Maybe this is my bad for not further explaining, but my point was that we're not talking about wiping out the debt of just 1 person, but rather of hundreds of thousands or even millions. Sure - nobody would notice if one person didn't pay their taxes or if 1 person's debt got wiped clean, but multiply that by millions of people, and now it gets noticed.

Debt can absolutely disappear. The person who loaned out the money accepts the loss and no longer seeks the money. Thus no debt. Paying it off or making them whole or whatever is a nicety essentially.

In the case of student loans, at the end of the day, the person who took out the loan and didn't pay it back still received goods or services in exchange for that loaned money. Your teachers still got paid. The company who published your textbooks still got paid. Etc, etc. You make it sound like debt is some arbitrary, artificial number that only exists on paper. That's not true. Ultimately, you received goods and services at someone else's expense. So when the government forgives that debt, it is ultimately redistributing wealth, taking it from those who earned it and giving to those who didn't. Now you may be ok with that and you may try to justify it, but let's not pretend like that's not what is happening here.

How does it get noticed? You still paid the exact same amount in taxes regardless of whether this happened or not… it’s not like they propose a new program and you pay more suddenly.

[bmw]

If the government gets the same in taxes but spends more, then that piles on to the national debt. It doesn't just magically go away.

[TC Talks]

If the government gets the same in taxes but spends more, then that piles on to the national debt. It doesn't just magically go away.

That magic is called The Fed and you'd be amazed how quickly debt can vanish.

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If the government gets the same in taxes but spends more, then that piles on to the national debt. It doesn't just magically go away.

The fed just has to move some zeros around and the ballgame changes.

[bmw]

Just move some zeroes around. Wow, why didn't I figure out that it was just that simple!?

I gotta do my taxes today - moving some zeros around sounds like a splendid plan.

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Just move some zeroes around. Wow, why didn't I figure out that it was just that simple!?

I gotta do my taxes today - moving some zeros around sounds like a splendid plan.

And when you print money you can too…