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The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Debate and discussion of current events and political issues across the U.S. and throughout the World. Be forewarned -- this forum is NOT for the intellectually weak or those of you with thin skins. Don't come crying to me if you become the subject of ridicule. **Board Administrator reserves the right to revoke posting privileges based on my sole discretion**
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Honeyman
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Unread post by Honeyman »

Bryce wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 7:49 am
Honeyman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:10 pm This is one reason why you're such a pile of shit:

assault weapon.
What a miserable fuck you are.
Guess I am too. The use of the term "assault weapon" pisses me off. It is used by the left to gin up fear among the ignorant and achieve their political objective of gun control.

I have asked, many times, for people on this board that throw that term around to define exactly what an "assault weapon" is. No one has done so to date, because in fact, any weapon that is used in an assault can indeed be defined as an assault weapon. In fact, most the rifles you would consider an "assault weapon" are nothing but a regular old rifle dressed up to look scary.

I can put a couple of spoilers and some fat tires on a stock Malibu. It ain't gonna be a race car.

Are pistols considered an "assault weapon" in your world?
I would claim that a modified semi-automatic gun with "die ni--ers" painted on it like this man used, qualified as an assault weapon.
The censorship king from out of state.
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Bryce
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Unread post by Bryce »

Honeyman wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 8:55 am modified
Important word. Was the Bushmaster XM-15 an "assault weapon" prior to modification? Would my Glock 19 be classified as an "assault weapon" because I can put a 30 round clip in it?
New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.
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Honeyman
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Unread post by Honeyman »

Bryce wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:05 am
Honeyman wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 8:55 am modified
Important word. Was the Bushmaster XM-15 an "assault weapon" prior to modification? Would my Glock 19 be classified as an "assault weapon" because I can put a 30 round clip in it?
I admittedly don't know guns well at all.

Looked it up and this is what Adam Lanza brought to an elementary school to kill 6 year old children:

Izhmash Saiga 12-gauge semiautomatic shotgun
Bushmaster Model XM15-E2S .223-caliber semiautomatic rifle
Glock 20 10mm semiautomatic handgun
Sig Sauer P226 9mm semiautomatic handgun.

Under the circumstances, I would classify those as assault weapons.
The censorship king from out of state.
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Bryce
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Unread post by Bryce »

Honeyman wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:14 am

Looked it up and this is what Adam Lanza brought to an elementary school to kill 6 year old children:

Izhmash Saiga 12-gauge semiautomatic shotgun
Bushmaster Model XM15-E2S .223-caliber semiautomatic rifle
Glock 20 10mm semiautomatic handgun
Sig Sauer P226 9mm semiautomatic handgun.

Under the circumstances, I would classify those as assault weapons.
It would appear then that an action must be taken before a firearm is classified as an assault weapon?

I own a Sig 226. It's my go to carry firearm when wearing a suit. Should mine be taken away from me because a mentally ill whack job used it to kill children?
New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.
bmw
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Unread post by bmw »

km1125 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:59 pm It's just a number of "degrees of difference" between the hate you have for that neighbor and the hate someone like the Buffalo dude has. With just a bit of research, I'd bet you could find a number local "lawncare" incidents where a similar "hate" for what a neighbor was doing escalated into a confrontation that ended in serious injuries or death.
Apples to oranges. One is pre-meditated. The other arises from circumstance. Moreover, the pre-meditated killing is usually indiscriminate (ie, anybody who meets a certain criteria). These 2 crimes, while both result in someone ending up dead, aren't even comparable.
km1125 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:59 pm You're making a H*** assumption and probably a 'leap of faith' in identifying the cause as "simply existing and being different than them." May as well blame it on something his mommy did when he was 6 or 7 years old.
I think you're missing my point. Let me try something else. Unless you're a PETA nutjob, you probably don't take issue with humans killing certain animals. A person driven by the kind of hate I'm talking about feels the same way about the people they're killing that you do about, say, killing a mosquito. Specifically, that not only does it mean nothing to you to kill that mosquito, but that mosquito's life is not nearly as valuable as yours is.
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FakeAndyStuart
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Unread post by FakeAndyStuart »

I'm happy to see all you nincompoops argue over a word I didn't use, and apologize for the mischaracterization of the utensil of choice, so let me rephrase -

Could an argument be made that the accessibility of high powered semi-automatic weapons makes these types of events easier for the shooter?

I've asked a number of people this question, and either get "They are coming to take away all our guns" or "Those gun nuts need to be put in their place" with no real discussion about the topic I've suggested. Should we make obtaining an AR-15 a little more difficult that whipping out Daddy's MasterCard? And let's be clear again, especially after the most recent leak of SCOTUS possible rulings - the Constitution does NOT mention guns, rifles or AR-15s. How was the word "arms" defined in 1776? And is it different now? Shouldn't an "Originalist" use the "original" definition? There have been plenty of laws and rulings thru the 1800's that limited gun ownership.. for blacks, felons and others.

To discuss some other elements of the Bee Product Human's post -
Authorities say the good guy with a gun may have slowed down the shooter and saved some lives. But it looks like the shooter came out unscathed and unwounded. And the good guy died. With all the body armor and protection he had on, why didn't the good guy aim at his head?

Yes, it took a while to figure out the acts of the gentleman in Waukesha were intentional. But he didn't write a 180 page screed either. Motive is not a question here, the shooter was quite clear as to his intent.

And I'm sorry but this statement annoys me to no end..
Since everybody is jumping on the "racial hate crime" angle, what does that say to the 2 of the dead who were not black?? Did their lives not matter?? Are their deaths somehow less tragic and their killing somehow less important as the AG focuses on the racial "hate" angle of the murders??
Of course their lives matter... BUT THEY DIDN'T DIE!
Jennifer Warrington, 50, of Tonawanda, New York, was treated and released from hospital
Christopher Braden, 55, of Lackawanna, New York, had non-life-threatening injuries
Doesn't take a genius everybody.

I also laugh at someone who "agrees" with my statement about politicians making hay of this situation, while that same person uses their responses to do the same thing.
km1125
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Unread post by km1125 »

FakeAndyStuart wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:45 am ... And I'm sorry but this statement annoys me to no end..
Since everybody is jumping on the "racial hate crime" angle, what does that say to the 2 of the dead who were not black?? Did their lives not matter?? Are their deaths somehow less tragic and their killing somehow less important as the AG focuses on the racial "hate" angle of the murders??
Of course their lives matter... BUT THEY DIDN'T DIE!
Jennifer Warrington, 50, of Tonawanda, New York, was treated and released from hospital
Christopher Braden, 55, of Lackawanna, New York, had non-life-threatening injuries
Doesn't take a genius everybody.
OK, I'll take that one back. I got that impression from one of the broadcast stories and probably should have dug a bit deeper to confirm the folks killed. My point still stands though. Is anyone's death from a "hate crime" any more important than anyone else killed by a murder? You can use "hate" as evidence to support premeditation, but murder is murder and it shouldn't be any better or worse for one to be killed with "hate" as a motive than any other type of premeditation.
FakeAndyStuart wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:45 am I also laugh at someone who "agrees" with my statement about politicians making hay of this situation, while that same person uses their responses to do the same thing.
I don't get this statement at all. I am certainly not a politician and stand no gain (or "making hay") from weighing in on this.
km1125
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Unread post by km1125 »

bmw wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:37 am
km1125 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:59 pm It's just a number of "degrees of difference" between the hate you have for that neighbor and the hate someone like the Buffalo dude has. With just a bit of research, I'd bet you could find a number local "lawncare" incidents where a similar "hate" for what a neighbor was doing escalated into a confrontation that ended in serious injuries or death.
Apples to oranges. One is pre-meditated. The other arises from circumstance. Moreover, the pre-meditated killing is usually indiscriminate (ie, anybody who meets a certain criteria). These 2 crimes, while both result in someone ending up dead, aren't even comparable.
Well, no, you can't say that one is premediated over the other. Maybe in your particular case it might be, but the "offended" neighbor could be brewing and stewing about that to do and eventually it came to a head.

But that's not really the issue. The title of the thread includes "HATE IS THE PROBLEM" but yet you've proven that it's not "HATE", but some subset or type of "HATE". It's not all hate, just the bad hate. How do you regulate and define that?? THAT is my point. These folks who are just saying "It's the hate" are just as bad as those saying "It's the guns".
bmw wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:37 am I think you're missing my point. Let me try something else. Unless you're a PETA nutjob, you probably don't take issue with humans killing certain animals. A person driven by the kind of hate I'm talking about feels the same way about the people they're killing that you do about, say, killing a mosquito. Specifically, that not only does it mean nothing to you to kill that mosquito, but that mosquito's life is not nearly as valuable as yours is.
Now we're getting somewhere. It's not the hate, but it's whether or not someone respects the value of life, regardless if that's a human or an animal. Should be easy to determine the line between human and non-human life (although now we're breaching that abortion-rights topic), but where do we draw the line between animal in insect though?? I guess I could be one on the teetering edge, because I really don't value the life of any mosquito or housefly.
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Unread post by Deleted User 15783 »

Honeyman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:10 pm ... This is one reason why you're such a pile of shit ...
... What a miserable fuck you are ...
Andy and KM write a few paragraphs of concise thoughts. Not just a few paragraphs copied and pasted from the 'net.
Almost a whole page in this thread without someone being a potty mouth.
I suppose it was inevitable.
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Honeyman
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Unread post by Honeyman »

In The Bleachers wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 11:50 am
Honeyman wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:10 pm ... This is one reason why you're such a pile of shit ...
... What a miserable fuck you are ...
Andy and KM write a few paragraphs of concise thoughts. Not just a few paragraphs copied and pasted from the 'net.
Almost a whole page in this thread without someone being a potty mouth.
I suppose it was inevitable.
You're right. I'm a stream-of-consciousness type of poster and I often let my emotions get the best of me.

I apologize for those comments km, and to the rest of the board.
The censorship king from out of state.
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Honeyman
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Unread post by Honeyman »

Just curious if "hate" is still the problem?
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bmw
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Unread post by bmw »

If you're referring to the Texas shooting, we don't know much other than that the shooter wasn't white, and was apparently bullied in middle and early high school.
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Turkeytop
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Unread post by Turkeytop »

Dead children The small price a polite society pays for its gawd given right to bear arms.

Thoughts and prayers.
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Honeyman
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Unread post by Honeyman »

bmw wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:05 am If you're referring to the Texas shooting, we don't know much other than that the shooter wasn't white, and was apparently bullied in middle and early high school.
I'm confused....does the fact that he "wasn't white" mean he had more or less hate?
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bmw
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Unread post by bmw »

Depends on the color of the victims, which we don't know since the media won't report it. Of course when a white dude shoots a bunch of black kids, we know IMMEDIATELY the race of everybody involved, and it is declared a "hate crime."

I'm not suggesting that's what happened here since we don't have enough information, I just find it interesting the stark difference in the way the media covers these cases based solely on skin color of the shooter and the victims.
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