Hard to get a neutral jury in Trump land. The case should have been held near Lansing.MWmetalhead wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:31 pm I am very disheartened by the outcome. Fox and especially Croft are very dangerous men who need to be locked up!
Not terribly surprising given the location of the trial (Kent County).
I hope the cases against Fox and Croft are re-tried.
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Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read
- MotorCityRadioFreak
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Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read
They/them, non-binary and proud.
Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.
Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.
Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read
I didn't follow this really closely, but I'd really like to know more of the details on the FBI agents or informants actions in this whole debacle. I know what we're told via the sensationalized media reports, but what actually was the truth?
Could/would the individuals actually pull off this plan without the help and guidance of those agents/informants, or were they just a bunch of hicks talking smack? Obviously the jury wasn't too convinced that they could have done it alone.
Forcing folks to plea to a crime under the threat of using the full weight and power (and virtually unlimited resources) of the Federal Government should be concerning to us all. Especially true when they allow someone to plea to a lesser crime, but use the threat of the maximum crime as a leverage, even knowing they could probably never actually get a conviction on that maximum crime.
Could/would the individuals actually pull off this plan without the help and guidance of those agents/informants, or were they just a bunch of hicks talking smack? Obviously the jury wasn't too convinced that they could have done it alone.
Forcing folks to plea to a crime under the threat of using the full weight and power (and virtually unlimited resources) of the Federal Government should be concerning to us all. Especially true when they allow someone to plea to a lesser crime, but use the threat of the maximum crime as a leverage, even knowing they could probably never actually get a conviction on that maximum crime.
Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read
This is a hack response, or you just don't understand how the justice system works.MotorCityRadioFreak wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:46 amHard to get a neutral jury in Trump land. The case should have been held near Lansing.MWmetalhead wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:31 pm I am very disheartened by the outcome. Fox and especially Croft are very dangerous men who need to be locked up!
Not terribly surprising given the location of the trial (Kent County).
I hope the cases against Fox and Croft are re-tried.
This is a pro-Harris/Walz account
"I have to admit - Matt is right." ~bmw
"I have to admit - Matt is right." ~bmw
- FakeAndyStuart
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Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read
Watched a lot of Law and Order, it's always difficult to convict people of thinking about committing a crime without actually committing it.
This isn't a Philip K Dick story.
This isn't a Philip K Dick story.
Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read
Seems like the FBI entrapment defense loomed large.
This is a pro-Harris/Walz account
"I have to admit - Matt is right." ~bmw
"I have to admit - Matt is right." ~bmw
Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read
I'm pretty much in agreement with what most on this thread are saying. From all I've read, I get the consensus that a bunch of guys with a belly full of beer were talking trash. No intent of actually doing anything.
Just like the little voice that goes off in your head when someone cuts you off. "I'd like to ram him into a telephone pole".
Let's hope you're not an Uber driver giving an FBI agent a ride.
Just like the little voice that goes off in your head when someone cuts you off. "I'd like to ram him into a telephone pole".
Let's hope you're not an Uber driver giving an FBI agent a ride.
- craig11152
- Posts: 2201
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- Location: Ann Arbor
Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read
I can't say I followed the trial close enough to have an opinion on the verdict of acquittal.
I will say getting a 12-0 vote is pretty definitive.
I will also say in my opinion given an imperfect system letting a guilty man go free is the lesser evil to locking up an innocent man
I will say getting a 12-0 vote is pretty definitive.
I will also say in my opinion given an imperfect system letting a guilty man go free is the lesser evil to locking up an innocent man
I no longer directly engage Rate This
- FakeAndyStuart
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Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read
That opinion says you are against the death penalty.craig11152 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:52 pm I can't say I followed the trial close enough to have an opinion on the verdict of acquittal.
I will say getting a 12-0 vote is pretty definitive.
I will also say in my opinion given an imperfect system letting a guilty man go free is the lesser evil to locking up an innocent man
- craig11152
- Posts: 2201
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Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read
I am against the death penalty for that exact reason.FakeAndyStuart wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:17 pmThat opinion says you are against the death penalty.craig11152 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:52 pm I can't say I followed the trial close enough to have an opinion on the verdict of acquittal.
I will say getting a 12-0 vote is pretty definitive.
I will also say in my opinion given an imperfect system letting a guilty man go free is the lesser evil to locking up an innocent man
Why would you bother to bring that up?
Hoping for a "gotcha" moment?
I no longer directly engage Rate This
Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read
I think he has you pegged as a conservative. I'm fairly right leaning, and I'm also against the death penalty. This is true of several right-leaning posters. #gotchafailcraig11152 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 6:37 pmI am against the death penalty for that exact reason.FakeAndyStuart wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:17 pmThat opinion says you are against the death penalty.craig11152 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:52 pm I can't say I followed the trial close enough to have an opinion on the verdict of acquittal.
I will say getting a 12-0 vote is pretty definitive.
I will also say in my opinion given an imperfect system letting a guilty man go free is the lesser evil to locking up an innocent man
Why would you bother to bring that up?
Hoping for a "gotcha" moment?
This is a pro-Harris/Walz account
"I have to admit - Matt is right." ~bmw
"I have to admit - Matt is right." ~bmw
Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read
Which is scary when the "thought police" get in power and start making laws or looking for convictions based just on what they believe you were thinking, rather than just someone's actual actions.In The Bleachers wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:24 pm I'm pretty much in agreement with what most on this thread are saying. From all I've read, I get the consensus that a bunch of guys with a belly full of beer were talking trash. No intent of actually doing anything.
Just like the little voice that goes off in your head when someone cuts you off. "I'd like to ram him into a telephone pole".
Let's hope you're not an Uber driver giving an FBI agent a ride.
Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read
I thought everyone would've been found guilty no way I could let anyone be found not guilty I wasn't following the trial all that much.
Go Pistons, Let's Go Redwings.
- FakeAndyStuart
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Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read
Nope not at all, just showing that in this day and age of partisan rancor and rage, there are people like you who have consistent and reasonable opinions. I totally agree, the possibility of executing one innocent person is not worth it... I'm sure we don't agree on many other topics but at least there might be some starting ground for further discussions.craig11152 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 6:37 pmI am against the death penalty for that exact reason.FakeAndyStuart wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:17 pmThat opinion says you are against the death penalty.craig11152 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:52 pm I can't say I followed the trial close enough to have an opinion on the verdict of acquittal.
I will say getting a 12-0 vote is pretty definitive.
I will also say in my opinion given an imperfect system letting a guilty man go free is the lesser evil to locking up an innocent man
Why would you bother to bring that up?
Hoping for a "gotcha" moment?
Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read
It seems since the first indictment, the defendants have been saying it was the informants that were doing cartwheels with a set of pom-poms encouraging the rest "Let's Do This".