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Socialism fails in Ann Arbor

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Matt
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Socialism fails in Ann Arbor

Unread post by Matt »

https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/20 ... offee.html
Alec Hershman, 33, has worked at the Main Street location for three years and said he was working to negotiate a new contract with the shop through the The Washtenaw Area Coffee Workers Association union for six months. He said there has not been progress.

“We just found out yesterday our employers are laying us off,” Hershman said. “Unfortunately, staffing was growing tighter and tighter and they reduced the number of people who would cover a shift. We’ve all been exhausted and overworked."

A message seeking comment was left for the managers at Mighty Good Coffee.

“We had to file our first unfair labor practice against the company last week," Hershman said. “Then this week, we just got notice from their attorney that they are too stressed out to continue negotiating with us and they are closing all the stores.”

The first impacted cafe will be the Main Street location. Employees there will be laid off Friday, Hershman added. The location on South University will dissolve on May 5, he said. Mighty Good Coffee has other locations in Arbor Hills on Washtenaw Avenue, and inside the Jefferson Market.
"Our employers" probably should read "the owners of the business who have heavily invested in making their businesses one of the best coffee shops in the state". The reality of the situation is that you have 4 locations, 3 in high rent districts and your labor costs go up and the labor acts as though they deserve to have a right to dictate how the business is operated, you're going to have a tough time surviving. It sounds as though they'll likely continue roasting and distributing their product.

I would be remiss not to point out the dishonest SJW nonsense in the article:
“There was a barista of color who was about the same tenure as I am, about three years into the company, who was paid the least amount of any of the baristas of that tenure,” Hershman said. “When she found out, she brought that to the attention of management and did not get a satisfactory resolution. It didn’t seem to us to be a case of malicious racism (or) intention to discriminate, but there’s absolute obstinance about addressing the issue or talking about it in a productive, progressive way.
Paraphrased, "even though her lower wage had NOTHING to do with her race, the owners are still required to pay this person more money just because she is black."
“They tried to get us to have mandatory meetings in which we would sign confidentiality agreements and talk about ‘repairing our company,’ which at that point was an all white company and it really just rubbed a lot of us the wrong way. We felt like whiteness was being constructed in our workplace in this unhealthy way and we needed to resist it."
Or perhaps being a barista is an inherently disproportionate white occupation. At least in Ann Arbor, I can't really think of ANY coffee shop that I recall seeing someone other than white working at. Everything is not about race.
This is a pro-Harris/Walz account

"I have to admit - Matt is right." ~bmw
Deleted User 8570

Re: Socialism fails in Ann Arbor

Unread post by Deleted User 8570 »

Matt wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:12 pm https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/20 ... offee.html
Alec Hershman, 33, has worked at the Main Street location for three years and said he was working to negotiate a new contract with the shop through the The Washtenaw Area Coffee Workers Association union for six months. He said there has not been progress.

“We just found out yesterday our employers are laying us off,” Hershman said. “Unfortunately, staffing was growing tighter and tighter and they reduced the number of people who would cover a shift. We’ve all been exhausted and overworked."

A message seeking comment was left for the managers at Mighty Good Coffee.

“We had to file our first unfair labor practice against the company last week," Hershman said. “Then this week, we just got notice from their attorney that they are too stressed out to continue negotiating with us and they are closing all the stores.”

The first impacted cafe will be the Main Street location. Employees there will be laid off Friday, Hershman added. The location on South University will dissolve on May 5, he said. Mighty Good Coffee has other locations in Arbor Hills on Washtenaw Avenue, and inside the Jefferson Market.
"Our employers" probably should read "the owners of the business who have heavily invested in making their businesses one of the best coffee shops in the state". The reality of the situation is that you have 4 locations, 3 in high rent districts and your labor costs go up and the labor acts as though they deserve to have a right to dictate how the business is operated, you're going to have a tough time surviving. It sounds as though they'll likely continue roasting and distributing their product.

I would be remiss not to point out the dishonest SJW nonsense in the article:
“There was a barista of color who was about the same tenure as I am, about three years into the company, who was paid the least amount of any of the baristas of that tenure,” Hershman said. “When she found out, she brought that to the attention of management and did not get a satisfactory resolution. It didn’t seem to us to be a case of malicious racism (or) intention to discriminate, but there’s absolute obstinance about addressing the issue or talking about it in a productive, progressive way.
Paraphrased, "even though her lower wage had NOTHING to do with her race, the owners are still required to pay this person more money just because she is black."
“They tried to get us to have mandatory meetings in which we would sign confidentiality agreements and talk about ‘repairing our company,’ which at that point was an all white company and it really just rubbed a lot of us the wrong way. We felt like whiteness was being constructed in our workplace in this unhealthy way and we needed to resist it."
Or perhaps being a barista is an inherently disproportionate white occupation. At least in Ann Arbor, I can't really think of ANY coffee shop that I recall seeing someone other than white working at. Everything is not about race.
I don’t see any socialism here (seriously go read the definition)... it sounds like a piece of shit company from the management to the employees though and I’ll bet you $5 that’s what killed it... trying to unionize isn’t socialism... its trying to get better working conditions and wages. That the owners of the company couldn’t handle that speaks to their ineptitude. Other companies do just fine working with their workers and don’t close down. I don’t feel a bit sorry for their inability to make it work.

As for that barista being paid less, if indeed she was paid less than others with the same seniority then that further speaks to a lack of internal organization and procedures in place to make sure everything is working on an even level. No well managed company goes without some sort of time based pay scale in this sort of service job.

Mighty Good Coffee was mighty bad at running a business and failed because of it. Gee Matt, you are a conservative ostensibly... this is survival of the fittest.. These guys simply could not cut it. That’s been an unbending point on the right since before the Great Depression... surely laissez faire works for you?
Matt
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Re: Socialism fails in Ann Arbor

Unread post by Matt »

MWmetalhead wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:47 pm Sounds like the company was failing before the workers even unionized.

It is unclear what impact, if any, the union had on wages, scheduling, fringe benefits, etc.
The business is no where near close to failing. It has done extremely well in the 13 years it has been in business. I suspect that the comment about the stress of running the businesses is the real reason. The socialists that work as baristas were the straw that broke the camel's back.
This is a pro-Harris/Walz account

"I have to admit - Matt is right." ~bmw
Deleted User 8570

Re: Socialism fails in Ann Arbor

Unread post by Deleted User 8570 »

Matt wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:03 pm
MWmetalhead wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:47 pm Sounds like the company was failing before the workers even unionized.

It is unclear what impact, if any, the union had on wages, scheduling, fringe benefits, etc.
The business is no where near close to failing. It has done extremely well in the 13 years it has been in business. I suspect that the comment about the stress of running the businesses is the real reason. The socialists that work as baristas were the straw that broke the camel's back.
They aren’t even socialists... stop using that label if you don’t know what it means...

If it was doing extremely well then they would be able to figure out how to negotiate a contract or find someone who could handle such issues.... clearly it was failing.
Matt
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Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:18 pm
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Re: Socialism fails in Ann Arbor

Unread post by Matt »

NS8401 wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:30 pm
Matt wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:03 pm
MWmetalhead wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:47 pm Sounds like the company was failing before the workers even unionized.

It is unclear what impact, if any, the union had on wages, scheduling, fringe benefits, etc.
The business is no where near close to failing. It has done extremely well in the 13 years it has been in business. I suspect that the comment about the stress of running the businesses is the real reason. The socialists that work as baristas were the straw that broke the camel's back.
They aren’t even socialists... stop using that label if you don’t know what it means...

If it was doing extremely well then they would be able to figure out how to negotiate a contract or find someone who could handle such issues.... clearly it was failing.
I know EXACTLY what socialism means. It appears that you don't, so you can read more at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism but the very first sentence is:
Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management, as well as the political theories and movements associated with them.
We're talking about a job (barista) that is not meant to be a career. They absolutely are telling the cafe operation of Mighty Good Coffee how the shops should be managed and how much they should be paid. They have no skin in the game, but they think they are co-equal to the owners of the business. That is simply not true.
MWmetalhead wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:23 pm There wouldn't be much stress if the business were profitable.

My guess is the same outcome would've occurred regardless of whether the place was a union shop or not.

I've seen plenty of businesses - big & small - with plenty of longevity that haven't turned a profit in several years.

The job market is very tight in A2 due to a very strong local economy. Ownership was probably having difficulty retaining quality help because they couldn't afford to pay a competitive wage. I don't doubt the employees were an issue; you get what you pay for!
I don't believe that profitability is an issue. Here's a comment on an mlive story:
I've personally known the owners of MG for more than 23 years...they're some of the most fair and decent parents/AA citizens/humans I've ever known.

They built this tiny company from a little stall in an industrial park on the outskirts of AA into a town favorite destination... with their bare hands, with money that they scraped to get, while raising kids. I was there...I saw it. I definitely didn't see a single one of the people now claiming rights/ownership to this company/brand when I saw the first batches of beans come out of the roaster. THAT was building a company, a brand, and value. And if you build something 100% yourself, it is yours...solely.

In this process they're legally not allowed to publicly defend themselves, so you get to enjoy 50% of this story from people who most definitely have an interesting take on it. And if you choose to blindly believe one side of this story without doing your homework - shame on you. Save your outrage for any one of the thousands of truly faceless corporations that actually deserve your bile, not locals that worked to make something 100% in Ann Arbor, for Ann Arbor.
Here's a couple more articles that don't really corroborate some of the things the baristas are saying:

https://www.detroitlover.net/david-myers-nic-sims

https://www.mlive.com/business/ann-arbo ... es_pr.html
He also said that he wanted to offset the cost of the Affordable Care Act coverage that his employees signed up for in January. He gave each of his employees a raise of about 60 cents per hour to pay for health insurance.

Mighty Good Coffee is not mandated to provide coverage for its employees because of the size of the business, but Myers said wanted to be a responsible business owner and help offset the cost of health care for his employees.
This is a pro-Harris/Walz account

"I have to admit - Matt is right." ~bmw
Deleted User 8570

Re: Socialism fails in Ann Arbor

Unread post by Deleted User 8570 »

Matt wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:14 am
NS8401 wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:30 pm
Matt wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:03 pm
MWmetalhead wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:47 pm Sounds like the company was failing before the workers even unionized.

It is unclear what impact, if any, the union had on wages, scheduling, fringe benefits, etc.
The business is no where near close to failing. It has done extremely well in the 13 years it has been in business. I suspect that the comment about the stress of running the businesses is the real reason. The socialists that work as baristas were the straw that broke the camel's back.
They aren’t even socialists... stop using that label if you don’t know what it means...

If it was doing extremely well then they would be able to figure out how to negotiate a contract or find someone who could handle such issues.... clearly it was failing.
I know EXACTLY what socialism means. It appears that you don't, so you can read more at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism but the very first sentence is:
Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management, as well as the political theories and movements associated with them.
We're talking about a job (barista) that is not meant to be a career. They absolutely are telling the cafe operation of Mighty Good Coffee how the shops should be managed and how much they should be paid. They have no skin in the game, but they think they are co-equal to the owners of the business. That is simply not true.
MWmetalhead wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:23 pm There wouldn't be much stress if the business were profitable.

My guess is the same outcome would've occurred regardless of whether the place was a union shop or not.

I've seen plenty of businesses - big & small - with plenty of longevity that haven't turned a profit in several years.

The job market is very tight in A2 due to a very strong local economy. Ownership was probably having difficulty retaining quality help because they couldn't afford to pay a competitive wage. I don't doubt the employees were an issue; you get what you pay for!
I don't believe that profitability is an issue. Here's a comment on an mlive story:
I've personally known the owners of MG for more than 23 years...they're some of the most fair and decent parents/AA citizens/humans I've ever known.

They built this tiny company from a little stall in an industrial park on the outskirts of AA into a town favorite destination... with their bare hands, with money that they scraped to get, while raising kids. I was there...I saw it. I definitely didn't see a single one of the people now claiming rights/ownership to this company/brand when I saw the first batches of beans come out of the roaster. THAT was building a company, a brand, and value. And if you build something 100% yourself, it is yours...solely.

In this process they're legally not allowed to publicly defend themselves, so you get to enjoy 50% of this story from people who most definitely have an interesting take on it. And if you choose to blindly believe one side of this story without doing your homework - shame on you. Save your outrage for any one of the thousands of truly faceless corporations that actually deserve your bile, not locals that worked to make something 100% in Ann Arbor, for Ann Arbor.
Here's a couple more articles that don't really corroborate some of the things the baristas are saying:

https://www.detroitlover.net/david-myers-nic-sims

https://www.mlive.com/business/ann-arbo ... es_pr.html
He also said that he wanted to offset the cost of the Affordable Care Act coverage that his employees signed up for in January. He gave each of his employees a raise of about 60 cents per hour to pay for health insurance.

Mighty Good Coffee is not mandated to provide coverage for its employees because of the size of the business, but Myers said wanted to be a responsible business owner and help offset the cost of health care for his employees.
A Union is not social ownership and is not an attempt at self control of their work... it’s an attempt to come to an agreement to better their working conditions. These people stunk at management and they went under. They join a long line of folks who have managed to do the same. Oh well.
Matt
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Re: Socialism fails in Ann Arbor

Unread post by Matt »

MWmetalhead wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:07 am
In this process they're legally not allowed to publicly defend themselves, so you get to enjoy 50% of this story from people who most definitely have an interesting take on it.
LMAO - what a load of bullshit!!! Absolutely no law is preventing ownership from speaking with the media or issuing a press release.
And if you choose to blindly believe one side of this story without doing your homework - shame on you. Save your outrage for any one of the thousands of truly faceless corporations that actually deserve your bile, not locals that worked to make something 100% in Ann Arbor, for Ann Arbor.
So because they are "local" people, they get a free pass. Got it.
Presumably, they've been advised to not say anything due to threatened civil or employment law litigation. Also, it should be noted, the company is NOT CLOSING! They are closing a part of the business that got to be too much of a headache. Also, did you read any of the other links?
This is a pro-Harris/Walz account

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Deleted User 8570

Re: Socialism fails in Ann Arbor

Unread post by Deleted User 8570 »

Matt wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:40 am
MWmetalhead wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:07 am
In this process they're legally not allowed to publicly defend themselves, so you get to enjoy 50% of this story from people who most definitely have an interesting take on it.
LMAO - what a load of bullshit!!! Absolutely no law is preventing ownership from speaking with the media or issuing a press release.
And if you choose to blindly believe one side of this story without doing your homework - shame on you. Save your outrage for any one of the thousands of truly faceless corporations that actually deserve your bile, not locals that worked to make something 100% in Ann Arbor, for Ann Arbor.
So because they are "local" people, they get a free pass. Got it.
Presumably, they've been advised to not say anything due to threatened civil or employment law litigation. Also, it should be noted, the company is NOT CLOSING! They are closing a part of the business that got to be too much of a headache. Also, did you read any of the other links?
So can we also assume that these folks have interests outside of coffee? What other things do they run?
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Lester The Nightfly
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Re: Socialism fails in Ann Arbor

Unread post by Lester The Nightfly »

MWmetalhead wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:07 pm A new article published today on MLive said undisclosed "family issues" are responsible for the closing of the four stores. One of the owners is quoted as saying personal family issues outside of the business became too overwhelming to allow for adequate devotion of time to run the stores properly.
Whoopsie... there goes the narrative.
No matter, I'm sure there are reds under the bed somewhere in A2 :eek
Deleted User 24

Re: Socialism fails in Ann Arbor

Unread post by Deleted User 24 »

This one reminds me of Little Matt.

https://youtu.be/AylFqdxRMwE
Matt
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Re: Socialism fails in Ann Arbor

Unread post by Matt »

This is a pro-Harris/Walz account

"I have to admit - Matt is right." ~bmw
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