Blacks overwhelmingly support school choice; Democrats oppose it. Why?

[bmw]

One of the most important topics that I think is being overlooked in the current national discussion on racial inequality is education: one of the most fundamental drivers of inequality in all corners of society. Without a proper education, you have a significantly larger hurdle to digging yourself out of poverty than with a good education.

So that brings me to the topic of school choice. First, polling data from 2019:

40% of white Democrats support targeted vouchers
70% of black Democrats support them

For universal vouchers, the numbers are 46/64. For charter schools, 33/55

https://www.educationnext.org/files/edn ... _fig03.png

So there you have it. Even for charter schools - something generally considered a conservative institution and vehemently opposed by many white liberals - even those have majority support from blacks.

This begs the question - why the glaring discrepancy between white Democrats and black Democrats on this issue?

[MWmetalhead]

Two words - the unions. The same dynamic largely at fault for rogue cops remaining employed and escaping accountability.

[bmw]

Then follow-up question. Why so few single-issue voter blacks on this issue? 93% vote for Democrat, seemingly no matter what. Yet, it is the Republican party that supports school choice. Given that a sizable majority of blacks are with Republicans on this seemingly important issue, why is it not enough to get more of them to vote for an (R) ?

As to the teachers' unions specifically, is it fair for me to say that Democrat politicians side with unions as opposed to blacks on this particular issue for that very reason? That pissing off the teachers' unions is more likely to lose votes than is ignoring the black community?

[Deleted User 13307]

Blacks (and minorities and those at social economic disadvantages in general) just want to a way to get the very best education for their kids as possible- whatever the system or political party that is behind it.

Most feel trapped by failing school systems that have been gutted by politicians of all parties.

Education should not be a partisan issue.

[TC Talks]

Well, because most of those schools of choice are just a money grab...

The head of our school of choice with "Solid Christian Values" avoided prison but skated with about a million dollars before getting caught.

Last March, the Network for Public Education released a report showing that the federal government has lost a billion dollars to charter school waste and fraud. But the organization had not stopped sifting through the data. Their follow-up report, “Still Asleep At The Wheel: How the Federal Charter Schools Program Results in as Pileup of Fraud ands Waste,” reveals that the situation is even worse than shown in the first report, while laying out more state by state details. Particularly striking—the vast amount of money that has been wasted on ghost schools that never served

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petergreen ... b13517a22f

[bmw]

TC - are you suggesting that public schools aren't rampant with fraud?

Here is the fraud report for just Chicago last year. http://cpsoig.org/uploads/3/5/5/6/35562 ... e-copy.pdf

Based on your logic, we should just shut down all fraudulent public school systems as well.

[zzand]

My daughters ran into fraud in their school system. We pay school book rental fees in our state, about 250 a year per student, a little less for elementary, a little more for high school. Now they all use Ipads or the android version and parents pay rental on those which makes sense, but they also were trying to grab book fees and there are no books anymore. All preloaded on the device. Parents got together and filed suit, school district quickly settled, pay device fee, book fees are waived.

[TC Talks]

Look at how a poorly constructed education system is destroying the United States.

Education reform needs to happen. Cutting funding isn't the path to victory.

BMW if I were to scrutinize your business like you scrutinize almost everything I bet your cracks would show. Of course you are private business outside public scrutiny, as are Charter schools. If we went that direction how could we find a problem like zzand highlighted?

Nothing is perfect, some things need wholesale reform (like Police) others need adjustments.

[km1125]

...
Cutting funding isn't the path to victory.
...

Neither is throwing money at the problem. Just look at Detroit PS. One of the highest per-student costs and one of the lowest success factors.

[TC Talks]

...
Cutting funding isn't the path to victory.
...

Neither is throwing money at the problem. Just look at Detroit PS. One of the highest per-student costs and one of the lowest success factors.

True, but there are many additional challenges with crippling poverty and generational illiteracy that a stable upper middle class district doesn't face. For starters, to actually get teachers Detroit must pay 30% more. Immediately jumping to the district for the issues isn't fair to them. I know the State of Michigan did a wholesale restructuring when they took over the district. Are you suggesting that the Snyder administration didn't know what they were doing?

[Bryce]

Tis interesting that many of the same people that are calling for the demise of the police unions have no such thoughts about the teachers unions.

[bmw]

Tis interesting that many of the same people that are calling for the demise of the police unions have no such thoughts about the teachers unions.

That's because THEY get to choose which government institutions are failing and which government institutions should be disbanded. You will never, ever see any of these clowns calling for the defunding or disbanding of failing public schools.

[MWmetalhead]

Bear in mind much of the spending in the old Detroit Public School district was for debt service and legacy costs, not classroom instruction.

Massive diseconomies of scale unfolded due to a combination of population fleeing the city of Detroit over a multi-decade period and parents choosing to send their students to charter schools, parochial schools, and public districts in adjacent cities to escape the poor environment of DPS.

DPS should've underwent a bankruptcy-style reorganization many years earlier than it did.

[Matt]

Tis interesting that many of the same people that are calling for the demise of the police unions have no such thoughts about the teachers unions.

THIS times a million.

[Deleted User 13307]

There's a H*** philosophical difference between a police union that protects is members from being fired for criminal activity and teachers unions that typically do not protect members accused of crimes involving students. Teachers unions do not lobby for prosecutorial immunity for their members.

Knowing members of both unions, the only thing remotely similar is that they both use collective bargaining. Teachers unions are typically among the weakest, if not the weakest, in terms of successfully defending their members from termination for cause.