Justice

[Turkeytop]

Justice delayed is justice denied. Had this been rushed through the court to a verdict while Trump was still President, he may have been pardoned by now and sporting the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

[Lester The Nightfly]

Justice delayed is justice denied. Had this been rushed through the court to a verdict while Trump was still President, he may have been pardoned by now and sporting the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

You're not far from the truth my friend, not far from the truth at all.

[jadednihilist]

Justice delayed is justice denied. Had this been rushed through the court to a verdict while Trump was still President, he may have been pardoned by now and sporting the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

I despise Trump, but disagree with this post. Trump is on the record calling the death of George Floyd a 'disgrace'. The delays are a result of the bar of successfully prosecuting a cop for criminal misconduct, especially murder, while on duty being incredibly high. The prosecution needed the time to masterfully build a case against Derek Chauvin. In similar cases, it took 3 months for a grand jury to decide not to indict officers the fatal shooting of Michael Brown, Jr. in Ferguson, Missouri; 5 months for grand jury to decide not to indict officers in the fatal chokehold of Eric Garner in Staten Island; 4 months to declare a mistrial for one of the officers and acquit the other officers in the death of Freddie Gray in Baltimore; 6 months for a grand jury to indict officers in the fatal shooting of Breonna Taylor in Louisville, Kentucky for mere charges of first-degree wanton endangerment (felony punishable with a fine of up to $10,000 or 5 years in prison).

The arc won't bend towards justice until we implement reforms that reduce the incidence of death following police encounters.

[Matt]

No issue with the verdict from me.
And all over the country big city store owners can breath a sigh of relief....for the moment.

Agreed - it will be interesting to see the appeal process play out.

Maxine Waters will share ALL of the blame if the verdict gets tossed.

Yep.

While I wholeheartedly agree Maxine Waters is a complete fool, the verdict will not get tossed.

But quite expected you guys decide to deflect from the main issue and bury the lead.

George Floyd was not a hero, but he didn't deserve to die. Let's not make this more than it is. The actions of an overreaching cop ended his life prematurely. That cop is now likely going to pay the price for his actions.

I'm not dismissing the racial inequality at all, either. This country has a long way to go on racial issues - it's a marathon and it feels like we're at mile marker 0.2. Whether you're an opportunistic politician in Washington using this tragic situation as a pandering opportunity or a virtue signaling middle-aged white man in Traverse City, this isn't about your wokeness. The key is treating people as true equals and not as pawns to advance your own agenda. We have a long fucking way to go...

[Lester The Nightfly]

Justice delayed is justice denied. Had this been rushed through the court to a verdict while Trump was still President, he may have been pardoned by now and sporting the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

I despise Trump, but disagree with this post. Trump is on the record calling the death of George Floyd a 'disgrace'.

Google "Things Trump called a disgrace" and hope you're nowhere near your internet provider's data cap because the list is long.
Of course Trump would have given a cop who murdered a black man a pardon and/or a medal. Based on most of the other people he granted a pardon or a medal to, I have no doubt whatsoever he would do the same for Chauvin. None.

[bmw]

Of course Trump would have given a cop who murdered a black man a pardon and/or a medal.

Seek help. You clearly need it.

[bmw]

While I wholeheartedly agree Maxine Waters is a complete fool, the verdict will not get tossed.

But quite expected you guys decide to deflect from the main issue and bury the lead.

Even the judge in the case said Watters' comments may serve as grounds for appeal to get the verdict overturned. This was a fairly easy GUILTY verdict. That some moron in Congress had to say something like this and possibly put the verdict in jeopardy (I THINK the verdict will probably survive an appeal, but why give it a reason not to? ) is beyond baffling. I mean, nothing good could come from what she said. Get a not-guilty verdict and the rioters and looters will feel empowered by her comments. Get a guilty verdict and now there's grounds for appeal. It was a no-win comment and the people in her own party should have had the guts to censure her for just how irresponsible it was.

As to the verdict itself, I don't have much to say about it. The cop probably got what he deserved. Though TBH, I'm more upset about the broader implications of his actions and the left's response to those actions that fueled riots last summer that led to a number of innocent people dead. Those people deserve as much publicity as Floyd is getting, and they won't get even a sliver of it.

[Bryce]

Based on most of the other people he granted a pardon or a medal to, I have no doubt whatsoever he would do the same for Chauvin. None.

Like Jon Ponder and Alice Johnson?

Who accomplished criminal justice reform and fixed policy heralded by Joe Biden that disproportionately imprisoned black males?

[bmw]

Based on most of the other people he granted a pardon or a medal to, I have no doubt whatsoever he would do the same for Chauvin. None.

Like Jon Ponder and Alice Johnson?

Who accomplished criminal justice reform and fixed policy heralded by Joe Biden that disproportionately imprisoned black males?

I don't know why you even try to serious engage in debate with him. Anybody who seriously argues that Trump would have given a medal of freedom for a white cop killing a black person doesn't deserve the time of day, let alone attention on an internet forum. Honestly I'm about ready to put him next to TC Talks on my block list - he contributes virtually nothing to this forum except for the same bigotry that TC Talks does - only difference is he encases it in sarcasm so as to not be taken as seriously - which, in some ways, is even worse than what TC Talks does. At least TC Talks is open and honest about his views and intentions. Lester is just an assclown.

[Bryce]

Hopefully, newscasters will realize they are not any police agency's PR department.

When the hell do they have time for that? They're much too busy running PR for leftists, Marxists, and Totalionarists.

[Bryce]

Based on most of the other people he granted a pardon or a medal to, I have no doubt whatsoever he would do the same for Chauvin. None.

Like Jon Ponder and Alice Johnson?

Who accomplished criminal justice reform and fixed policy heralded by Joe Biden that disproportionately imprisoned black males?

I don't know why you even try to serious engage in debate with him. Anybody who seriously argues that Trump would have given a medal of freedom for a white cop killing a black person doesn't deserve the time of day, let alone attention on an internet forum. Honestly I'm about ready to put him next to TC Talks on my block list - he contributes virtually nothing to this forum except for the same bigotry that TC Talks does - only difference is he encases it in sarcasm so as to not be taken as seriously - which, in some ways, is even worse than what TC Talks does. At least TC Talks is open and honest about his views and intentions. Lester is just an assclown.

I have a really high tolerance for pain. Over the years I have come to embrace it and use it as a motivator.

[Rate This]

Based on most of the other people he granted a pardon or a medal to, I have no doubt whatsoever he would do the same for Chauvin. None.

Like Jon Ponder and Alice Johnson?

Who accomplished criminal justice reform and fixed policy heralded by Joe Biden that disproportionately imprisoned black males?

If you are referring to him praising the 1994 crime bill that was Hillary Clinton not Biden.

[jadednihilist]

As to the verdict itself, I don't have much to say about it. The cop probably got what he deserved. Though TBH, I'm more upset about the broader implications of his actions and the left's response to those actions that fueled riots last summer that led to a number of innocent people dead. Those people deserve as much publicity as Floyd is getting, and they won't get even a sliver of it.

In my view, the government plays a critical role in diffusing a violent crowd as an out of control mob, by definition, does not regulate itself. In response to George Floyd, the government failed miserably and I see no indications that anyone has learned any lessons since then. I fully anticipate the same mistakes to be made in the future, and that's a true shame because no one wins with violence and destruction of our own homes and cities.

While I'm no expert in crowd management, I would think deescalation would need to be a priority. This crowd was already irate and that anger was directly aimed at the police. Peaceful protest should have been encouraged and their pain acknowledged. They should have been provided a platform to air their grievances to take the edge off of their anger. There were several incidents where police officers were the aggressors against protestors, lighting the fuse in an already explosive situation. Even though I acknowledged Trump called George Floyd's murder a disgrace, Trump also agitated the crowds with incendiary tweets and statements. His actions, violently clearing one of the peaceful crowds in Lafayette Square for a photo op used later in his 2020 campaign, were especially abhorrent and resembled the behavior one would typically associate with an autocrat. International press rightfully called out the mistreatment of seasoned war journalists who were victims of police aggression. Similar abuses were documented again this past week in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota.

The failures are not only Trump's, but also to the local and state governments across the country (yes, this is extending the blame to several Democrats). The goal, in my opinion, should have been to control the crowd in a way that minimizes confrontations with the police. Curfews, which were set in several cities, do arguably stifle free speech, but more importantly, force additional confrontations between the police and protestors. I doubt there's one person who legitimately believed that curfews were going to politely disincentivize protests and that everyone would have gone home. Detroit arguably had a more passive approach towards managing the protests and emerged effectively unscathed compared to countless other US cities that employed more aggressive tactics. For the most part, Detroit officers showed restraint until protestors got violent -- and then diffused the crowd quite effectively.

If the goal is to avoid violence and destruction, we clearly need to rethink our strategy. Overly aggressive approaches do not work, unless you completely obliterate the crowd in ways that cross the lines into human rights abuses, like China, Russia, Belarus, Venezuela, Iran, Egypt, Syria, etc. That does not mean you don't prosecute criminals who vandalize or steal property, or harm others; you must prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law as that behavior is never acceptable. It just means we need to seriously rethink how we manage crowds in tense situations to mitigate carnage.

All of that said, the best way to achieve long-term peace is through long-term justice. It should not be this hard to hold an officer accountable. The system, as is, not only represents a barrier to equal justice under the law, it also endangers the vast majority of officers who are exemplary citizens. Just look at how many good officers we needlessly lost in the line of duty.

[Lester The Nightfly]

Based on most of the other people he granted a pardon or a medal to, I have no doubt whatsoever he would do the same for Chauvin. None.

Like Jon Ponder and Alice Johnson?

Who accomplished criminal justice reform and fixed policy heralded by Joe Biden that disproportionately imprisoned black males?

I don't know why you even try to serious engage in debate with him. Anybody who seriously argues that Trump would have given a medal of freedom for a white cop killing a black person doesn't deserve the time of day, let alone attention on an internet forum. Honestly I'm about ready to put him next to TC Talks on my block list - he contributes virtually nothing to this forum except for the same bigotry that TC Talks does - only difference is he encases it in sarcasm so as to not be taken as seriously - which, in some ways, is even worse than what TC Talks does. At least TC Talks is open and honest about his views and intentions. Lester is just an assclown.

Save your rage. Trump had no issues pardoning multiple military members convicted of murder. But hey, they were Afghans and Iranians killed so no votes or PAC money to be harvested from that demographic so it's cool. Point being, if you're willing to set free folks who kill unarmed civilians it doesn't seem like much of stretch he'd be fine with giving a cop murdering a black man a pass as well. A medal would just be the cherry on the cake. A chef's kiss to his supporters.

[bmw]

I decided to educate myself and look all of these pardons of "murderers" up. Altogether there were 5. Here's what I found along with my opinion on each:

Michael Behenna - sentenced to 25 years for non-pre-meditated murder. He argued self-defense. 37 different generals and admirals, as well as a former Inspector General of the Defense Department, signed a brief in support of his self-defense claim. Did 37 police officers sign a brief in support of Chauvin's actions? I think not.

Mathew L. Golsteyn - was awaiting trial for murder. The person he murdered? An Afghan bomb-maker. Sorry, no sympathy here for an Afghan bomb maker.

Clint Lorance - Perhaps the highest-profile of the lot. Convicted of murder and sentenced to 20 years. He was ultimately pardoned because of the 3 people he killed - one was a bomb-maker, one was involved in an insurgent attack, and another was involved in a hostile action directly against US troops. Sounds like 3 good dead people to me. Again, no sympathy here.

Nicholas Abram Slatten - Probably the most controversial. Sentenced to life for murder of innocent Iraqi civilians. That verdict was thrown out on appeal, then he was tried again which resulted in a hung jury, then tried a 3rd time when he was again convicted. Hard to find info on exactly why Trump pardoned him. Tough call. I would be curious what led to the hung jury in the second trial.

Jaime A. Davidson - Killed a cop in 1990. Information a little tougher to come by on this one. The reason for the pardon was apparently believed there was enough evidence to suggest that he might be innocent. Whether you agree with that conclusion or not, pardoning someone who you believe to be innocent is certainly a legitimate reason to pardon somebody. btw - you should be celebrating this one, as he did after all kill a cop.