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How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Debate and discussion of current events and political issues across the U.S. and throughout the World. Be forewarned -- this forum is NOT for the intellectually weak or those of you with thin skins. Don't come crying to me if you become the subject of ridicule. **Board Administrator reserves the right to revoke posting privileges based on my sole discretion**
Deleted User 8570

Re: How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Unread post by Deleted User 8570 »

Turkeytop wrote:
audiophile wrote:Trump is a wild card...period.

Here a potential 4 billion savings:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/06/us ... oeing.html
So, instead of punishing Carrier for exporting jobs, as he had threatened to, he rewarded them with a $7M gift. Now he wants to punish Boeing, who isn't exporting any jobs.
They should just pass a law that levies a fine equivalent to 5 years of their savings from exporting the jobs.... they'd think twice if they had a $300 million fine coming...

All proceeds go to the national debt...
Last edited by Deleted User 8570 on Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Turkeytop
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Re: How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Unread post by Turkeytop »

TC Talks wrote:I would like the Federal Government to drug test the top three levels of leadership of any company receiving Government subsidies. I don't trust that they will use the money responsibly.

But you don't understand. This wasn't a subside. It was punishment.
tapeisrolling
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Re: How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Unread post by tapeisrolling »

Laws are one way but there other ways that a state can grease the palm of a company. One way quietly behind the scenes, the State lets the company KEEP money collected from it's employees in place of sending it off to the State coffers.

This and many other ways for companies to pad their bottom line can be found in the book "The Fine Print"
The utility companies have known for years that if they can get just .25 from each customer that it's potentially millions for them. I think we are screwing ourselves by paying companies to stay, when they probably already are able to skate on their fair share of property taxes and other taxes due to creative bookkeeping. How much money would the municipalities have if there were no incentives to get or keep an employer.

I worked for a company that has to make their product in close proximity to the customer because the freight was the killer expense. Yet they would go to the local government and threaten to go somewhere else. Make a promise of a few more jobs and bingo! Tax break here it comes and with added automation, (Paid for by the tax breaks) it was fewer jobs over the given period.

The residents are the one's being punished by having the State cut deals with their tax money that was meant for things like schools, roads, and better parks and such.
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Turkeytop
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Re: How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Unread post by Turkeytop »

I worked for a Company once that would apply every year for grants to employ the handicapped. Their front office looked like a convalescent ward. Everyone was either walking with canes or walkers or had their arms in slings. A couple of women wore dark glasses and walked with white canes. Of course, it was all phony. It was just their regular, able bodied employees playing the part of disabled.
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audiophile
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Re: How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Unread post by audiophile »

As I understand it, Carrier has to spend 16 million in upgrades in Indy.

The 7 million will come back as 700k in annual rebates over ten years.
Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!
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Calvert DeForest
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Re: How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Unread post by Calvert DeForest »

audiophile wrote:As I understand it, Carrier has to spend 16 million in upgrades in Indy.

The 7 million will come back as 700k in annual rebates over ten years.
According to Carrier's CEO, the bulk of the $16 million will be spent on automation, which will eventually replace jobs:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/08/news/co ... utomation/

So the $64,000 Questions is, what really is the net outcome of this?
Shortwave is the ORIGINAL satellite radio.
Deleted User 8570

Re: How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Unread post by Deleted User 8570 »

Calvert DeForest wrote:
audiophile wrote:As I understand it, Carrier has to spend 16 million in upgrades in Indy.

The 7 million will come back as 700k in annual rebates over ten years.
According to Carrier's CEO, the bulk of the $16 million will be spent on automation, which will eventually replace jobs:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/08/news/co ... utomation/

So the $64,000 Questions is, what really is the net outcome of this?
Saving 700 or so jobs that will be automated anyways and shipping out 1300 to Mexico while Trump looks like a deal maker even if he didn't do much of anything...
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audiophile
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Re: How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Unread post by audiophile »

Calvert DeForest wrote:
audiophile wrote:As I understand it, Carrier has to spend 16 million in upgrades in Indy.

The 7 million will come back as 700k in annual rebates over ten years.
According to Carrier's CEO, the bulk of the $16 million will be spent on automation, which will eventually replace jobs:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/08/news/co ... utomation/

So the $64,000 Questions is, what really is the net outcome of this?
If they don't import the final product, all the other suppliers will still be needed.

Assembly is only a small part of the big picture..
Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!
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audiophile
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Re: How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Unread post by audiophile »

They could have two categories ...

best and worst.
Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!
Deleted User 8570

Re: How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Unread post by Deleted User 8570 »

audiophile wrote:
Calvert DeForest wrote:
audiophile wrote:As I understand it, Carrier has to spend 16 million in upgrades in Indy.

The 7 million will come back as 700k in annual rebates over ten years.
According to Carrier's CEO, the bulk of the $16 million will be spent on automation, which will eventually replace jobs:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/08/news/co ... utomation/

So the $64,000 Questions is, what really is the net outcome of this?
If they don't import the final product, all the other suppliers will still be needed.

Assembly is only a small part of the big picture..
The parts just get shipped south... they don't make the whole thing 100% in Mexico if it goes there. Import or export is largely irrelevant for parts.
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audiophile
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Re: How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Unread post by audiophile »

I can guarantee they would not ship the heavy parts to Mexico to assemble,then just to ship it back to the US. They would get Mexican supplier!

This is not an electronic product or clothing...
Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!
Deleted User 8570

Re: How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Unread post by Deleted User 8570 »

audiophile wrote:I can guarantee they would not ship the heavy parts to Mexico to assemble,then just to ship it back to the US. They would get Mexican supplier!

This is not an electronic product or clothing...
They ship auto parts to Mexico... lots of them... why would you think a furnace would be any different. Toss them in a shipping container and roll...
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audiophile
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Re: How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Unread post by audiophile »

Assembly of a car is thousands of parts - which is a significant labor cost.

An AC unit is maybe in the high ten's.

Parts:
Compressor
Condenser
Fan
Relay
Schrader ports
#12 wire

Labor:
silver soldering
20 screws
minor wiring
Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!
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Turkeytop
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Re: How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Unread post by Turkeytop »

John Nichols: Union leader Chuck Jones is a better president than Donald Trump will ever be


Donald Trump, America’s troll in chief, picks Twitter fights with anyone who calls him out. So it should come as no surprise that the president-elect has gone after Chuck Jones.


Jones is the president of United Steelworkers Local 1999, which represents Carrier manufacturing workers in Indiana. And last week he called out Trump’s troublesome relationship with the truth. Big time.


Reflecting on the president-elect’s wildly inflated claims about saving Carrier jobs, Jones said after the president-elect’s visit to Indianapolis Dec. 1 that “he got up there and, for whatever reason, lied his ass off.”


The union president’s language was blunt — as the language of working Americans and their champions in states such as Indiana, and Wisconsin, can be when promises are broken and jobs are lost.


The point Chuck Jones has made is a vital one. For all of Trump’s efforts to pat himself on the back, the billionaire businessman did a lousy job of negotiating with United Technologies, the company that owns Carrier. Many of the United Technologies/Carrier jobs in Indiana that were threatened with offshoring will still be lost under Trump’s deal. United Technologies still plans to close a major plant in the state. And the plant Trump said he helped to “save” will have dramatically reduced employment.


The president-elect didn’t tell that side of the story when he appeared before the TV cameras in Indianapolis. Indeed, he made outrageously dishonest claims. As The Indianapolis Star explained: “Trump said Carrier’s Indianapolis employment is going to ‘go up substantially’ from 1,100. It’s currently at 1,400. The Wall Street Journal is reporting 800 employees whose jobs were to be cut will be retained.”


Trump’s double-talk was too much for Jones, who decided to set the record straight. After the president-elect claimed to have “kept” 1,100 jobs at the Indianapolis Carrier plant, Jones reported that Carrier was telling him only about 730 production jobs at the Indianapolis facility would be saved.


Why the discrepancy?


Trump inflated his “kept” jobs claim by counting roughly 350 research-and-development positions that the company had no plans to move to Mexico. That made it look like he had convinced United Technologies to save the vast majority of the Indianapolis jobs that were slated to be shifted to Mexico — when in fact hundreds of positions are being lost at the factory in that city. And Trump made no mention of the 700 jobs that will be lost when the United Technologies plant in Huntington, Indiana, is shuttered.


“Trump and Pence, they pulled a dog and pony show on the numbers,” Jones told The Washington Post. “I almost threw up in my mouth.”


The disgust that Jones was describing will be familiar to Wisconsinites who have had similar experiences when corporate CEOs and politicians make grand announcements about saving jobs — only to have it turn out that the job numbers are inflated and the future remains bleak.


Jones was demanding accountability and action for the workers he represents in Indiana, but he could easily be speaking for workers in Wisconsin and states across the country.


In an interview with CNNMoney, Jones addressed his remarks directly to Trump: “You made a promise to keep all these jobs. You halfway delivered. We expect you to go back and keep all the jobs.”


That kind of talk did not go over well with America’s fragile president-elect. On the same day that Time announced the selection of Trump as its “Person of the Year,” the billionaire took time out from picking a Cabinet to pick on the leader of a union local in Indiana.

http://host.madison.com/news/opinion/co ... 4e990.html
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audiophile
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Re: How Would Trump Punish Companies For Leaving The US?

Unread post by audiophile »

So what did Mr. Jones do to retain ANY company in Indy?

One could probably argue Mr. Jones drove Carrier out of town.

Unions often keep deadbeats on the job. Those sleeping on duct-work, the alcohol/drug abusers, the constantly/absent and tardy, etc. I grew up in a UAW household - I know the stories, so save the BS.

Those people need to fired if they don't reform.

I understand it's the unions's job to try to keep those folks from getting fired - but that might mean it goes too far and causes companies to throw in the towel...
Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!
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