St John Macomb ER closed tonight

[MotorCityRadioFreak]

Just got word from a friend that the St John Macomb ER has closed temporarily tonight due to a staff shortage. Nurses have quit tonight ahead of the vaccine mandate. I share an equal amount of disgust for the nurses for being selfish as well as the Biden administration for not thinking this through. I also am upset with myself for not seeing that the vaccine mandates could lead to this. There have to be basic staffing levels maintained.

I hate the idea of giving into the anti vaxxers, but we also cannot have people dying due to ERs being unavailable. We are truly in a dark time.

[Chrocket87]

I’ve mentioned my opposition to vaccine mandates for this exact reason. At the hospital I work at, if we just lose a handful of nurses, the staffing is gonna go from pretty lousy to just downright unsafe. I’ll encourage anyone to get the vaccine if they can, but this, as well as the police resignations in places like NYC, Chicago, and Seattle are only going to cause bigger problems than they seek to solve.

[Bryce]

I hate the idea of giving into the anti vaxxers, but we also cannot have people dying due to ERs being unavailable. We are truly in a dark time.

Why are people that believe getting the vaccine is a personal choice, left up to the individual, called "anti vaxxers", yet people that support abortion labeled as "pro-choice?"

I believe becoming vaccinated for a segment of the population is a very good idea. However, for certain individuals it may not be. You see, I'm Pro-Choice, not Anti Vaxx.

In years past, I listened to lefties cry about keeping the government out of the bedroom because it was an intrusion in to private life and liberty. For the most part I agreed with their argument. Now these same people fully support and are perfectly happy giving the federal government permission to intrude into a persons blood stream with a one size fits all mandate.

Makes absolutely no sense.

[Bryce]

I’ve mentioned my opposition to vaccine mandates for this exact reason. At the hospital I work at, if we just lose a handful of nurses, the staffing is gonna go from pretty lousy to just downright unsafe. I’ll encourage anyone to get the vaccine if they can, but this, as well as the police resignations in places like NYC, Chicago, and Seattle are only going to cause bigger problems than they seek to solve.

Not to mention the CIA, NSA and U.S. Armed forces which are projected to loose about 20% of their workforce.

[craig11152]

For sake of argument if I am in the hospital for a hip replacement (one down, one to go) should I have the right to "demand" nurses and other medical staff that are vaccinated? Not because I fear getting Covid, rather because I have little confidence in their ability to make sound medical decisions about my care.

[km1125]

It should be painfully obvious by now that just getting the vaccine does not prevent the spread of COVID. Whether healthcare professionals are vaccinated or not doesn't mean you can't get COVID from them, nor from other vaccinated or nonvaccinated people. The vaccine only minimizes YOU from getting seriously infected and reduces YOUR chance of dying from COVID.

We've long crossed the threshold of "herd immunity" where COVID should be a non-issue. We should have been seeing infections, hospitalizations and deaths dropping dramatically over the last few months but we still saw a major increase in many areas, contrary to their increase vaccination rates.

[craig11152]

It should be painfully obvious by now that just getting the vaccine does not prevent the spread of COVID.

You cannot connect those dots. If it greatly reduces the spread that is the goal of any vaccine. Vaccinated people are way less likely to contract Covid and if they do are way less likely to have a severe case. And if they don't get it they can't spread it. There is some evidence that a mild case MAY be less prone to spreading although that is not definitive.

We should have been seeing infections, hospitalizations and deaths dropping dramatically over the last few months but we still saw a major increase in many areas, contrary to their increase vaccination rates.

The thing is a vast majority of those hospitalized for Covid (around 90%+) are unvaccinated. The Covid deaths are overwhelmingly unvaccinated.
So the vaccine works. People can't be stuck on the false idea that if it's not nearly 100% effective it's somehow a failure.

[Robert Faygo]

Semantics are important.


The vaccine does not prevent the spread of COVID is an accurate statement.
Simultaneously...
The vaccine helps mitigate the spread of COVID is also an accurate statement.

Being vaccinated does not guarantee you will survive COVID is an accurate statement.
Simultaneously...
Being vaccinated increases the possibility that you will survive should you get COVID is an accurate statement.

All the bickering over who is right and who is wrong about vaccines is ridiculous only because there are no absolutes when dealing with this. Everyone is correct, to a certain extent. Everyone is incorrect, to a certain extent.

[km1125]

It should be painfully obvious by now that just getting the vaccine does not prevent the spread of COVID.

You cannot connect those dots. If it greatly reduces the spread that is the goal of any vaccine. Vaccinated people are way less likely to contract Covid and if they do are way less likely to have a severe case. And if they don't get it they can't spread it. There is some evidence that a mild case MAY be less prone to spreading although that is not definitive.

We should have been seeing infections, hospitalizations and deaths dropping dramatically over the last few months but we still saw a major increase in many areas, contrary to their increase vaccination rates.

The thing is a vast majority of those hospitalized for Covid (around 90%+) are unvaccinated. The Covid deaths are overwhelmingly unvaccinated.
So the vaccine works. People can't be stuck on the false idea that if it's not nearly 100% effective it's somehow a failure.

You absolutely can connect those dots, but some folks refuse to. As RF notes below, it does not prevent the spread, it just mitigates it. However, we can't really be sure how much it mitigates it because if folks are walking around asymptomatic (because the vaccine prevented symptoms) they may also be spreading it, unbeknownst to them. You could easily have a big portion of the 70% of the vaccinated folks passing on the virus to others. That really is perhaps the only good explanation to why we're still seeing higher numbers of infected folks now. That small minority of folks who are unvaccinated just can't be spreading it to the large numbers, without themselves showing symptoms.

Oh, and the last report I saw (just the other day) from Beaumont said 29% of their infected folks had been vaccinated. That's only a 2.5:1 advantage over those not vaccinated.

But this is not about whether or not the vaccine works. It's about discriminating against folks and denying them employment if they're not vaccinated, which is really hurting many industries, including medical care. Those folks are taking risks THEY think are appropriate for THEIR bodies and not further endangering anyone else.

Semantics are important.

The vaccine does not prevent the spread of COVID is an accurate statement.
Simultaneously...
The vaccine helps mitigate the spread of COVID is also an accurate statement.

Being vaccinated does not guarantee you will survive COVID is an accurate statement.
Simultaneously...
Being vaccinated increases the possibility that you will survive should you get COVID is an accurate statement.

All the bickering over who is right and who is wrong about vaccines is ridiculous only because there are no absolutes when dealing with this. Everyone is correct, to a certain extent. Everyone is incorrect, to a certain extent.

All true statements.

[tapeisrolling]

Staffing can be a problem when you don't replace people that leave no matter what the reason.
Then some hospitals will then pay up to $100 per hour to traveling nurses to fill in. Some are quitting to get the big buck slots.
https://www.wlns.com/news/sparrow-careg ... ient-care/

[TC Shuts Up]

Those Hospital workers are not anti vaxxers. They are seeing the results of the mRNA vaccines from the inside, and frankly, they don't want to die now or prematurely, or be so ill they are flat on their backs for weeks in the short run, with the log run unknown. The hospitals are now full of patients that don't have the virus. Look at Sparrow Hospital. Weird maladies never seen before, affecting numerous organs and systems.

Why are they still pushing this vaccine when Pfizer is on the cusp of a new prescription drug to treat COVID, just like they have treatment for AIDS now, but no vaccine? Secret is, the new drug under patent costs forty times more than "horse paste", which 200 members of congress have been treated with. The magic jelly for the queen bees. Drugs eventually metabolize and are peed out of the body. So it has a short potential for harm short term.

Why are we letting a pathetic senile old man, who can hardly string a sentence together, continue the mandate?

[bmw]

As of late September, 40 percent of the staff at my local hospital (Ascension St Joseph in Tawas City) were not vaccinated. I'm not sure how many of them have gotten vaccinated since then, but it looks like they will lose a substantial number of staff.

As to what degree vaccinated people are still spreading Covid, I disagree with Craig's assertion that the dots cannot be connected. Simply compare daily case numbers before and after the vaccine. Let's compare the winter 2020 wave to the current delta wave:

Winter 2020 peak daily cases - 255,000 (January 9)
Winter 2020 rapid decline until leveling off at 68,000 (February 17)
Vaccination rate - 5.7% fully vaccinated by Feb 17

Delta peak daily cases - 175,000 (September 13)
Delta decline until leveling off at 70,000 (October 25)
Vaccination rate - 58% fully vaccinated by Oct 25

So while the peak was lower by about 31%, we've leveled off at basically the same level we did in the Winter 2020 wave (and there's currently no indication that we'll continue to go lower like we did this past summer, though hopefully we will), and that is despite full vaccination rates climbing from 6% of the population to 58% of the population. With over half the population vaccinated, IF the transmission rates were really reduced by 90-95%, the EXPECTED daily cases would be cut by about 77 percent (90% efficacy of 58% of the population would be about 52% of the population, so take the other 48% and square it, or 0.48 x 0.48). And that doesn't even account for the additional natural immunity that has built up in that time. km1125 is correct - there appears to be a LOT of asymptomatic vaccinated people out there spreading Covid - and I suspect it is on orders of magnitude higher than what is being officially reported (and I base this assumption on numerous anecdotal reports along with common sense that says people who were otherwise getting sick and self-isolating are instead still going out into the real world).

[Plate Cap]

I'm amused by the number of graduates of the Facebook School of Epidemiology, Class of Thursday at 2:30, that I encounter as I read and listen in all aspects of my life.

The favorite tact is to pick the desired 'place' that speaker wants to be (vaccines are good, vaccines are bad, blah, blah), search out the anecdotal evidence that supports it, and repeat it like it like it was indisputable evidence. Those that are not graduates of said program are all statistical experts. 48% of those over 55 years of age have put away NOTHING for retirement, demonstrating interesting analytical skills, but every one of them has 'answer' to COVID 19 and are ready to spout 'facts'.

I'm amused further by the conspiracy theorists who see rabbits behind every tree, and a dollar in every pocket. Yeah, there are 195 countries in the world, all with medical organizations, and the big secret plans that the Tri-lateral Commission is foisting on us via COVID-19 programs are perfectly secure at all of them.

I'm VERY amused by those that tout their own cures and preventatives. I encountered a couple last week who 'eat right', and, as a result, are firmly convinced they won't get COVID-19

Last, I'm TREMENDOUSLY amused by the ivermectin crowd. It might help.....I'm an electrical engineer, not an epidemiologist....but I guarantee one thing for sure: Had the government pushed (or mandated) flea/tick/heartworm medicine - horse dewormer instead of vaccines, it would make the current push-back against vaccines look like a Sunday school picnic.

Get the shot. It's bigger than each of us.