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Only the Lions

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moldyoldie
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Re: Only the Lions

Post by moldyoldie » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:24 am

ftballfan wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:23 am
MWmetalhead wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:29 pm
Gotta love that clock management on the Lions' last possession. :lol

That was one of the quickest 3-and-outs I've ever witnessed!

Hey, I'm THRILLED the Lions lost; it helps their draft standing. The fact they lost via walk-off field goal (just like at Lambeaux) made it even better!
The Lions end up with the #3 pick. The Bengals are #1 and the Redskins are #2
It kills me how some fans advocate tanking for better draft position when this organization has proven time and again that they can't recognize, develop, or KEEP talent to the extent needed to build a winner. I'm willing to give Quinn/Patricia the extra year to "trust the process" and see if there's any sign of hope for this team. Fact: The Lions have had a lead in most of their games this season. It's difficult for me to believe one high draft choice can put us "over the top", so to speak.

Besides, the idea of playing to lose is just too damn perverse and ruins the game for me.


"The primary purpose of a liberal education is to make one's mind a pleasant place in which to spend one's leisure."
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Lester The Nightfly
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Re: Only the Lions

Post by Lester The Nightfly » Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:41 pm

moldyoldie wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:24 am

It kills me how some fans advocate tanking for better draft position when this organization has proven time and again that they can't recognize, develop, or KEEP talent to the extent needed to build a winner. I'm willing to give Quinn/Patricia the extra year to "trust the process" and see if there's any sign of hope for this team. Fact: The Lions have had a lead in most of their games this season. It's difficult for me to believe one high draft choice can put us "over the top", so to speak.

Besides, the idea of playing to lose is just too damn perverse and ruins the game for me.
Excellent post !!!!



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MWmetalhead
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Re: Only the Lions

Post by MWmetalhead » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:46 pm

Playing to win is downright stupid when (a) your W-L record is going to be total garbage regardless and (b) it could cause you to slide down several pegs on the draft board in the first round.

Besides, "garbage time" is the perfect time to give young bench players much needed in-game experience.

A high draft choice can't put the Lions over the top? OK - in many cases through the decades, that's true! But that hasn't always been the case. I would contend Calvin Johnson was a transformative draft pick, for example. If the Lions were even one or two slots lower on the draft board, he wouldn't have been available, in all likelihood. If the Lions were unable to draft Johnson, they likely would not have made the playoffs at any point during the Jim Schwartz or Jim Caldwell eras.


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bmw
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Re: Only the Lions

Post by bmw » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:13 pm

Except they wouldn't have slid down several pegs. JUST ONE. From 3rd to 4th overall.

And this is Green Bay we're talking about here. Arguably the Lions' biggest rivalry. And Green Bay had a LOT at stake here. Detroit could have knocked them out of their cushy first round bye.

I'm sorry, but you ALWAYS play to beat your rivals. I don't care what your draft prospects are. Bottom line is I think the Lions as an organization would have gained more from beating Green Bay this past Sunday than by moving up one spot in the draft. Not to mention it would have been a nice consolation prize for the die-hard fans who watched them every week through their terrible losing streak.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: Only the Lions

Post by MWmetalhead » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:21 pm

We beat Green Bay both times last season. Yeah, that great momentum really carried over into this season, didn't it?
Not to mention it would have been a nice consolation prize for the die-hard fans who watched them every week through their terrible losing streak.
You call them "die-hard fans." I call them "fools."

Hey, I'd rather have the #3 pick than #4.


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bmw
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Re: Only the Lions

Post by bmw » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:56 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:21 pm
We beat Green Bay both times last season. Yeah, that great momentum really carried over into this season, didn't it?
Tie-win-win. Yes, it did. 2-0-1 start and damn near beat the Chiefs and Packers the following 2 games.

And this Green Bay game was different than last year's - the Packers were already eliminated from playoff contention when they played the final game last year. Very different from playing for a first round bye.



fuzzpower
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Re: Only the Lions

Post by fuzzpower » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:14 am

The tie was to a rebuilding Arizona team with a QB and coach’s first NFL game. That’s not a good thing in my book.



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moldyoldie
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Re: Only the Lions

Post by moldyoldie » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:34 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:46 pm
A high draft choice can't put the Lions over the top? OK - in many cases through the decades, that's true! But that hasn't always been the case. I would contend Calvin Johnson was a transformative draft pick, for example. If the Lions were even one or two slots lower on the draft board, he wouldn't have been available, in all likelihood. If the Lions were unable to draft Johnson, they likely would not have made the playoffs at any point during the Jim Schwartz or Jim Caldwell eras.
The 2007 NFL Draft was remarkably rich with future Pro-Bowlers -- in addition to Megatron there was Joe Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, et al. However, let's take your contention one step further and suppose the Lions so stunk up the league the previous season that they had the #1 overall draft pick. Our starting QB at the time was journeyman Jon Kitna. Would Matt Millen have drafted legendary draft bust QB Jamarcus Russell #1 overall as did the Raiders and passed on Megatron? What's more, look at the entire Lions draft that year, especially the three 2nd-rounders -- Drew Stanton? Ikaika Alama-Francis? Gerald Alexander? I'd contend Megatron was a no-brainer at #2 overall that only a total doofus would pass up. What Millen's 2007 Draft set the stage for was the total and utter disgrace of a future 0-16 season followed by a 2-14 season.

My ultimate point is that playing for draft position is what losers do because the draft is so hit-or-miss. If the culture of this team is ever to change, tanking should NEVER EVER enter the conversation!


"The primary purpose of a liberal education is to make one's mind a pleasant place in which to spend one's leisure."
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fuzzpower
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Re: Only the Lions

Post by fuzzpower » Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:17 pm

At least Stanton was a competent backup QB around the league. Certainly not worth a second round pick, though.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: Only the Lions

Post by MWmetalhead » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:52 pm

Tie-win-win. Yes, it did. 2-0-1 start and damn near beat the Chiefs and Packers the following 2 games.
You're counting a tie where the Lions blew a large lead against a terrible team and two losses as "momentum" ? You sound like the stereotypical kool-aid drinking Lions fan! (I know you're not one of those people; I am simply saying that's what you sound like.)


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bmw
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Re: Only the Lions

Post by bmw » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:04 pm

My position is that the momentum came to a screeching halt when the refs handed Green Bay the first game. There were 2 horrible calls against Flowers, both at critical times, that I think if not called Detroit would have won the game. That officiating was the difference between Detroit being alone in first place and alone in last place in the division after that game ended. They never recovered from that.

Also - Moldy Oldie, I'm in full agreement that tanking should never enter the lexicon of ANY team that wants to establish a culture of winning.



matt1
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Re: Only the Lions

Post by matt1 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:04 pm




fuzzpower
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Re: Only the Lions

Post by fuzzpower » Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:40 am

bmw wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:04 pm
My position is that the momentum came to a screeching halt when the refs handed Green Bay the first game. There were 2 horrible calls against Flowers, both at critical times, that I think if not called Detroit would have won the game. That officiating was the difference between Detroit being alone in first place and alone in last place in the division after that game ended. They never recovered from that.

Also - Moldy Oldie, I'm in full agreement that tanking should never enter the lexicon of ANY team that wants to establish a culture of winning.

Yep, always blame the refs instead of the team’s ineptitude. Typical Lions fan. No wonder the national media laughs at them.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: Only the Lions

Post by MWmetalhead » Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:23 am

My position is that the momentum came to a screeching halt when the refs handed Green Bay the first game. There were 2 horrible calls against Flowers, both at critical times, that I think if not called Detroit would have won the game. That officiating was the difference between Detroit being alone in first place and alone in last place in the division after that game ended. They never recovered from that.
GOOD TEAMS overcome situations like that by not allowing it to interfere with performance in future games, especially, two, three or four games later.

Detroit is not a good team!

This season would've featured a terrible W-L record regardless. The Lions' defense was pathetic all season long.


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MWmetalhead
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Re: Only the Lions

Post by MWmetalhead » Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:36 am

"Hey, ya know all those close games the Lions below in the 4th quarter throughout the season? It only happened because the Lions were SCREWED in Green Bay!"

:lol

Yup, those two horrible officiating calls completely explain the Lions' ineptitude on defense, not to mention their sluggish performances on the offensive side of the ball in the second halves of games. (I'm being friendly in using the term "sluggish.")

If anyone cannot see that the wheels were already starting to come off PRIOR to that Green Bay road game, especially with the benefit of hindsight, I don't know what to say, other than PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND STOP DRINKING THE FORD FOCUS TRANSMISSION FLUID FLAVORED KOOL-AID!


Caroline Beasley is ruining WRIF. What a bitch!!!

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