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TV RF Channel Changes

Covers all of Northern Lower Michigan (from Ludington to Tawas northward), as well as the Straits Area and Soo Region.
ftballfan
Posts: 792
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:38 pm

Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by ftballfan » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:20 pm

makitaman wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:45 pm
Still waiting for the last 4 channel changes:

17 will be WMNN-Lake City from 14
22 will be WPBN-Harrietta from 50
25 will be WWTV-Traverse City from 40 (hope it doesn't wipe out WPNE WPT2 across the lake...Movies in HD)
30 will be WXII- Traverse City from 12 analog


29 WGTU, 34 WPBN & 35 WPBN looks great now from the Kalkaska tower !!

CW looks great in HD on 32-2 from Dighton.
34 is actually WCMV. Can you get WCMW where you are (they moved from 21 to 20)?



makitaman
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:23 pm

Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by makitaman » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:52 pm

Thanks ftballfan for the oversight, I corrected it.

Yes I can get WCMW off of the new RF 20 channel.



organman95
Posts: 231
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:49 pm

Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by organman95 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:20 am

I still think the WPBN & WTOM changes are absolutely stupid. Ch. 16 should have gone to WPBN, and left WTOM alone with its current Ch. 35. Seems to me that makes more sense, and easier with not having to replace equipment at one site.



ftballfan
Posts: 792
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:38 pm

Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by ftballfan » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:51 pm

organman95 wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:20 am
I still think the WPBN & WTOM changes are absolutely stupid. Ch. 16 should have gone to WPBN, and left WTOM alone with its current Ch. 35. Seems to me that makes more sense, and easier with not having to replace equipment at one site.
IMHO, WTOM should have gone to RF 7 after the 2009 transition (and WLUC should have gone to RF 8)



organman95
Posts: 231
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:49 pm

Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by organman95 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:14 am

ftballfan wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:51 pm
IMHO, WTOM should have gone to RF 7 after the 2009 transition (and WLUC should have gone to RF 8)
Why RF 7?



Nelson
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:48 pm
Location: East Jordan, MI

Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by Nelson » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:24 am

I'd love to see them return to VHF. VHF seems to work better over our terrain than UHF. My parents in East Jordan can't get a thing now that stations are on UHF. They never could get UHF stations before but could get VHF (ch. 6 and 7) with a decent picture.



WC8KCY
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:09 am
Location: 44° 14' N 86° 18' W

Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by WC8KCY » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:15 pm

Just did a rescan here in Manistee and still can't get WCMW-DT...but WCMV is now coming in from Cadillac, and that's never happened before.

WLUC should've taken the channel 8 allocation after the license for WDHS was deleted. But, I suppose they could always move back to 6.


Monitoring Northern Michigan and Northeast Wisconsin radio on a Marantz ST6000

organman95
Posts: 231
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:49 pm

Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by organman95 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:46 am

I always picked up WCMV. Really odd too, as I lived Mason/Manistee county line, significantly closer to WCMW



makitaman
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:23 pm

Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by makitaman » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:31 pm

All the rest:

12= WXII-analog 480 (mono) TC Cozi and MYN

14= WMNN-News & sports 720P/ Antenna, Laff, Court TV Mystery, Grit & Light 480i

21= WFUP-Fox 720P/CBS 1080i/METV 480i

23=W23EB-D-3ABN, Kids,Latino, AFTN & WGCP radio all 480i

29=WGTU- ABC 720P/NBC 1080i



ftballfan
Posts: 792
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:38 pm

Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by ftballfan » Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:57 pm

WC8KCY wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:15 pm
WLUC should've taken the channel 8 allocation after the license for WDHS was deleted. But, I suppose they could always move back to 6.
WDHS is an example of what might have been. That station would've been able to pick up a Big Three affiliation (likely NBC) when it was first licensed (since the license predates WBKP). Barrington bungled the transition heavily; WLUC should have made a deal with Withers (the then-owner of the WDHS license) that would have seen WLUC move to RF 8 and WDHS (nominally) move to RF 22 (its assigned transition channel) or RF 35.



WC8KCY
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:09 am
Location: 44° 14' N 86° 18' W

Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by WC8KCY » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:36 am

ftballfan wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:57 pm
WC8KCY wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:15 pm
WLUC should've taken the channel 8 allocation after the license for WDHS was deleted. But, I suppose they could always move back to 6.
WDHS is an example of what might have been. That station would've been able to pick up a Big Three affiliation (likely NBC) when it was first licensed (since the license predates WBKP). Barrington bungled the transition heavily; WLUC should have made a deal with Withers (the then-owner of the WDHS license) that would have seen WLUC move to RF 8 and WDHS (nominally) move to RF 22 (its assigned transition channel) or RF 35.
I have to politely disagree on WDHS getting a Big Three affiliation: In the analog era, Iron Mountain was in the service area of NBC affiliate WJFW, with CBS and ABC covered by WLUC and WJMN. There were translators for all three stations in Iron Mountain.

WDHS might have gotten a Fox affiliation at the time of that network's launch--but the analog 8 signal overlaps the northern portion of the Green Bay and Wausau markets. Green Bay's original Fox affiliate, WXGZ, may or may not have objected to this encroachment, but it's very possible the Fox affiliation would have been cancelled once WLUK effectively became a Fox O&O.

That said, it seems odd to me that UPN ended up on W49AF Crystal Falls instead of WDHS. WSCO-TV, Channel 14, Suring--another religious station in the WDHS service area--went dark by 1987 and by the time UPN launched in 1995, the handwriting was on the wall that WDHS wasn't likely to survive as a religious broadcaster, either. The launch of UPN would have been perhaps the best opportunity for WDHS to re-establish itself as a broadcast entity with income potential--and they could then have maintained the station's original mission by broadcasting EWTN programming on off-network dayparts. Suring's Channel 14 was relaunched and eventually became a WB affiliate in 1999; I bet 8 would've gotten the CW affiliation over 14 if 8 had already been affiliated with UPN. Would we today have CW8 Iron Mountain and CW32 Appleton along with ABC 5&10 Calumet/Ishpeming?


Monitoring Northern Michigan and Northeast Wisconsin radio on a Marantz ST6000

innate-in-you
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:54 am

Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by innate-in-you » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:44 pm

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Last edited by innate-in-you on Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.



innate-in-you
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:54 am

Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by innate-in-you » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:56 pm

I was not happy with how WJMN handled the transition in 2009. They wasted an opportunity to improve their signal.

In analog, the power limits for low-VHF were strictly enforced. 100kW was maximum power. WJMN was 100kW. However, they were in Zone II. Under the rules for DTV, stations in zones II and III, they could have operated with about 35kW (FCC permits stations in zones II and III to use more than maximum power to compensate for short towers). This would have allowed WJMN to operate on channel 3 at full Zone II coverage, economically, with a solid-state transmitter. The band I signal would have easily cut through the conifer forest and roll over hills.

ALL of the Central UP stations should have installed UHF translators in/overlooking Marquette, Escanaba and Iron Mountain.

Instead, they chose to be cheap. They placed a highly directional UHF antenna on the top of their tower. They even got a waiver to to create a "white area" in the Eastern U.P. to do that.



organman95
Posts: 231
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:49 pm

Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by organman95 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:54 pm

innate-in-you wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:56 pm
Instead, they chose to be cheap. They placed a highly directional UHF antenna on the top of their tower. They even got a waiver to to create a "white area" in the Eastern U.P. to do that.
If I'm not mistaken though, the UP has always been treated poorly, with the exception of WLUC. It is my understanding that WLUC has always had a H*** lead in the market regardless of who owns the station. Maybe I'm wrong.



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MWmetalhead
Site Admin
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Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:00 pm

I was not happy with how WJMN handled the transition in 2009. They wasted an opportunity to improve their signal.

In analog, the power limits for low-VHF were strictly enforced. 100kW was maximum power. WJMN was 100kW. However, they were in Zone II. Under the rules for DTV, stations in zones II and III, they could have operated with about 35kW (FCC permits stations in zones II and III to use more than maximum power to compensate for short towers). This would have allowed WJMN to operate on channel 3 at full Zone II coverage, economically, with a solid-state transmitter. The band I signal would have easily cut through the conifer forest and roll over hills.
Low-VHF signals are subject to disruption from sources of electrical interference. While that would've largely been a non-issue in heavily forested areas so long as viewers used outdoor antennas, in the major population centers, it likely would've presented major challenges.
ALL of the Central UP stations should have installed UHF translators in/overlooking Marquette, Escanaba and Iron Mountain.
Completely agree. Virtually all of the major network affiliates rely on per subscriber retransmission fees from cable & sat providers as a significant source of revenue.

So, it is to the advantage of the WLUCs and WJMNs of the world to maximize cable/sat viewership and minimize OTA viewership. We can all thank the FCC for that.
Instead, they chose to be cheap. They placed a highly directional UHF antenna on the top of their tower. They even got a waiver to to create a "white area" in the Eastern U.P. to do that.
Are you referring to WJMN or WLUC? WJMN broadcasts with 736 kW. There is nothing "cheap" about that. Also, directional antennas due to the intricate engineering involved can be quite expensive.

TV6 and its puny 83 kW directional signal on UHF 35, which provides only a small fraction of the coverage afforded by the old analog signal on TV6, definitely sucks.

Of course, WBUP channel 10 broadcasts with a flea-powered signal on VHF. Only 9 kW. Pitiful, if ya ask me. They don't care because it's sufficient to place a (fictitious) city-grade signal over Ishpeming, and that's all they care about. The fewer people who can pick up the signal, the better. More viewers reliant on cable/sat = more money.


Jackie Green is single-handedly ruining WLAV!

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