WTCM-FM 103.5, etc.

[BigFreq]

When nobody else pays for the ratings, you get to have the top positions all to yourself.

I have a sinking feeling that TC/Peto/Caddy Nielsens will soon go the way of these other markets they've recently dropped from their regular surveys:

Battle Creek, Michigan, Bend, Oregon, Billings, Montana, Grand Junction, Colorado, New Bedford-Fall River, Massachusetts, Texarkana, Texas/Arkansas, Richland-Kennewick-Pasco, Washington, Twin Falls-Sun Valley, Idaho and Yakima, Washington.

All's not well in Radioland these days, I have to say with much regret.

Agreed that Nielsen will likely go away for the current metro. Nielsen has a pricetag on what a market is worth, and as long as someone is willing to pay that price, they'll create data (typically, it takes at least three to tango and make that figure financially work). However, for markets under #100, that data has became more costly as National dollars shifted to digital and radio networks. Home Depot, Lowe's, GEICO, etc... found there was enough barter in the world they could buy network stuff cheaply and reach the girth they were looking for without having to drill down into individual markets. And other National buys began to cut back to only Top 50 markets... and for those National/Regional players going deeper in the ranks, they cut from 6-8 stations down to perhaps 3-4 deep in a given market (McD's, BK, Meijer, etc...). So core and heritage formats reaped the benefits of the smaller pie, depending on demos. From a National/Regional standpoint, all is not well, as that pie has shrunk considerably; making the juice not worth the squeeze to pay for that data (at least not for enough players to keep it rolling for Nielsen's pricetag). So, it's likely best to say goodbye to Nielsen and hope -- without that data -- advertisers decide/need to drill back into markets and territories; letting broadcasters compete for dollars (although I suspect that rabbit hole will create a new set of problems). In the meantime, if radio wishes to persevere (which, I believe, it will), it will have to roll up it's sleeves and hit the streets to take back local dollars with IDEAS and CONCEPTS... two things radio was built upon and can still deploy by making the effort.

[Deleted User 12047]

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^

Best, most well written post on this board in a long time. Nielsen will stop rating TC/Pet/Cad market if only Black Diamond is paying the market price (non-coms have a discount deal). With Midwestern/WTCM passing and Northern/Coyne/Blarney Stone probably past due on their contract, this data will soon go away. (You can see past subscribers by looking at the numbers shown in past books at link below) -

https://ratings.radio-online.com/content/arb335

Will Eastlan make a play for here? How much do they cost?

[TC Talks]

In the meantime, if radio wishes to persevere (which, I believe, it will), it will have to roll up it's sleeves and hit the streets to take back local dollars with IDEAS and CONCEPTS... two things radio was built upon and can still deploy by making the effort.

Here's a problem with this... Dollar for Dollar radio can't be competitive with online offerings anymore. I can host a Facebook event with a $100 boost and can consistently get better RESULTS. Heck, print media (ala Ticker) can get better impressions than one or several of the local radio stations (take your pick from 20+ options).

The only way to generate revenue is to burn through small businesses by over promising and under delivering. It's true. Then word of mouth catches up that "Radio is too expensive".

Of course, there's also the fact that most of everyone under 60 listens to streaming music these days. They were talking about WJR being sold for about $350,000 - $500,000 in Detroit. 50,000 watt clear channel markee station going for that price? Wonder why?

[ftballfan]

If Nielsen were to drop TC/Cadillac/Petoskey, would that affect the ownership cap? In non-market areas, ownership limits are based on 70dBu contour overlap.

[Deleted User 12047]

While I will agree that there are many more avenues and platforms for marketing local businesses and events, I disagree with blanket statements like..

Dollar for Dollar radio can't be competitive with online offerings anymore. The only way to generate revenue (for a radio station) is to burn through small businesses by over promising and under delivering.

I believe that there are some local stations, even around here, who have long term relationships with local businesses and go out of their way to avoid "burning" anyone. As you and I have had this discussion on another thread (or maybe pages ago on this one) I won't bore others with repeating it. But you take your clients your way, and I'll take mine.

Beside, Facebook is just a front for Russian propaganda.

[TC Talks]

List 5 who aren't buying social media. Hell, list 5 that aren't car dealerships.

[Deleted User 12047]

If Nielsen were to drop TC/Cadillac/Petoskey, would that affect the ownership cap? In non-market areas, ownership limits are based on 70dBu contour overlap.

I believe that will not change the ownership cap, as the actual market definition will not change. It's still considered a Nielsen Radio Metro, it just doesn't generate an actual report.

[Deleted User 12047]

List 5 who aren't buying social media. Hell, list 5 that aren't car dealerships.

OK, your penis is bigger. Not interested in an internet grudge match today, going back to helping people succeed with their small business during the current crisis. You have a great day.

[TC Talks]

There is no grudge, but I honestly don't have a clue who is advertising that isn't a car dealer or catering to a retiree.

[Jim Sofonia]

This IS pathetic...

https://www.allaccess.com/nielsen

Ummnn.. seems to be a pay wall or membership block there. Can you just cut and paste the numbers?

[Deleted User 12047]

This IS pathetic...

https://www.allaccess.com/nielsen

Ummnn.. seems to be a pay wall or membership block there. Can you just cut and paste the numbers?

Try this one..

https://ratings.radio-online.com/content/arb335

[MWmetalhead]

Given the stinging hit to the top line every radio group across the board has suffered, it is perfectly understandable that Nielsen subscription fees are being removed from budgets.

[MWmetalhead]

By the way, absolutely no one is talking about WJR being sold for $350k to $500k.

That sounds like the price range I may have ascribed to AM 580 WTCM in a non-COVID economy.

[BigFreq]

Will Eastlan make a play for here? How much do they cost?

I don't know what the Eastlan costs would be. But Eastlan is only viable if the market is split in two; otherwise you end up with the same issue you have now with Nielsen. The 11-county metro has long been too big, requiring most to have simulcast signals to effectively deliver it. You need only look at the two large country stations in the region to see its flaw; which is geography. If more Nielsen diaries landed north, then WMKC-FM got a benefit; whereas if they landed south, then WTCM-FM got the boost. Same lifestyle format -- but different geographic relevance. People in the TC area care little about what's happening around Petoskey... and vice versa. Eastlan will likely do call-out research, which is potentially more reliable than diaries; but, in order for ratings to be locally-relevant (IMO), the market needs to be split. You can't convince me Cheboygan and Manistee (3 hours apart) have anything in common other than identifying as "Northern Michigan". Think about how many metros you cross in two hours just traveling down I-96? Detroit, Ann Arbor, Lansing, and Grand Rapids. Take Emmett, Cheboygan, Otsego and Charlevoix counties as one trading zone. Then Antrim, Grand Traverse, Kalkaska, Leelanau, Benzie and Wexford as another. Manistee and Mason counties should really be their own trading zone. If it take over an hour (with no traffic) to travel to a key city in a trading zone, that's too far to be a part of a metro.

[NMCSpeaks]

Will Eastlan make a play for here? How much do they cost?

I don't know what the Eastlan costs would be. But Eastlan is only viable if the market is split in two; otherwise you end up with the same issue you have now with Nielsen. The 11-county metro has long been too big, requiring most to have simulcast signals to effectively deliver it. You need only look at the two large country stations in the region to see its flaw; which is geography. If more Nielsen diaries landed north, then WMKC-FM got a benefit; whereas if they landed south, then WTCM-FM got the boost. Same lifestyle format -- but different geographic relevance. People in the TC area care little about what's happening around Petoskey... and vice versa. Eastlan will likely do call-out research, which is potentially more reliable than diaries; but, in order for ratings to be locally-relevant (IMO), the market needs to be split. You can't convince me Cheboygan and Manistee (3 hours apart) have anything in common other than identifying as "Northern Michigan". Think about how many metros you cross in two hours just traveling down I-96? Detroit, Ann Arbor, Lansing, and Grand Rapids. Take Emmett, Cheboygan, Otsego and Charlevoix counties as one trading zone. Then Antrim, Grand Traverse, Kalkaska, Leelanau, Benzie and Wexford as another. Manistee and Mason counties should really be their own trading zone. If it take over an hour (with no traffic) to travel to a key city in a trading zone, that's too far to be a part of a metro.

Totally AGREED and well written.
And long overdue...even if Nielsen remains.