Acceptable registrations in the queue through March 16 at 11:00a ET have now been activated. Enjoy! -M.W.

Terms of Use have been amended effective October 6, 2019. Make sure you are aware of the new rules! Please visit this thread for details: https://www.mibuzzboard.com/phpBB3/view ... 16&t=48619

WCCW AM tower site for sale

Covers all of Northern Lower Michigan (from Ludington to Tawas northward), as well as the Straits Area and Soo Region.
CK-722
Posts: 1284
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:53 pm

Re: WCCW AM tower site for sale

Post by CK-722 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:11 am

I have to wonder if a lot of young people even know what a radio is. They're playing with their cellphones and tablets and laptops so much, they are probably oblivious to it.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

Artificial Intelligence is a Child that needs a Parent to guide it through.

User avatar
TC Talks
Posts: 10104
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:41 am

Re: WCCW AM tower site for sale

Post by TC Talks » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:35 am

My daughter's car radio has never had the presets programmed.


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

tvbobn
Posts: 154
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:25 pm

Re: WCCW AM tower site for sale

Post by tvbobn » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:40 am

TC Talks wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:35 am
My daughter's car radio has never had the presets programmed.
And you haven't disowned her? LOL


Frontier Airlines SUCKS! They're a bunch of thieves. Don't fly with them!

CK-722
Posts: 1284
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:53 pm

Re: WCCW AM tower site for sale

Post by CK-722 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:17 am

Remember those FM Radios in the Flint Public Schools that were tuned to WFBE and didn't have a tuning knob? TC Talks is selling radios that only receive WNMC-FM. And he's buying her a 1928 Porter from "My Mother The Car", where his daughter can only hear his voice on the radio.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

Artificial Intelligence is a Child that needs a Parent to guide it through.

User avatar
TC Talks
Posts: 10104
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:41 am

Re: WCCW AM tower site for sale

Post by TC Talks » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:45 am

It's just the progress of technology. I haven't had cable or OTA tv for 10+ years and we may have 1 radio in the house.

At $215,000, I could have bought the station. I bet 105.5 could still be had. But it's not a viable business plan. At one point, buying an AM station to get lower rates on streaming fees was a strategy.

My other kid sent me a youtube video of a local band in Canton OH. It had 14,000,000 views. The band has made about $35,000 from it. No usery contract from a record label, or .0006 per play from Spotify, however, it did get the band on Spotify and iTunes.

That one song created the band's career. They get good bookings nationwide. Read how Justin Beiber made it...

My point is that radio jumped the shark years ago because it kept trying to push the same business model and failed to recognize that the people were no longer listening.

There certainly are successful acts on radio, but the fans don't connect with them using radio anymore.
Last edited by TC Talks on Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

User avatar
TC Talks
Posts: 10104
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:41 am

Re: WCCW AM tower site for sale

Post by TC Talks » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:47 am

CK-722 wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:17 am
Remember those FM Radios in the Flint Public Schools that were tuned to WFBE and didn't have a tuning knob? TC Talks is selling radios that only receive WNMC-FM. And he's buying her a 1928 Porter from "My Mother The Car", where his daughter can only hear his voice on the radio.
WNMC and stations like it across the country have more listeners via streaming than they do ota. If you factor in streaming listeners, WNMC is 3rd behind Interlochen in Traverse City. They have 20 hours of live content a day. Who else has that?

It was suggested that MidWestern is selling this property to raise the funds to purchase WKLT. That speaks volumes because they are unquestionably the most successful group in the North. I bet you are older than 50 CK... When your generation is dead, radio doesn't stand a chance.


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

innate-in-you
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:54 am

Re: WCCW AM tower site for sale

Post by innate-in-you » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:57 pm

CK-722 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:17 am
WCCW 1310 had a CP for 50000 watts Daytime a few years ago. They also had applied for a CP for 15000 watts Daytime with a low PSSA power from the WTCM 580 site. That may have been modified for the new site. Under newer rules, they may be able to consolidate and diplex at the WTCM 580 site. They also could potentially get a Class B with at least 250 watts Night, as they no longer have to put an NIF over Traverse City. WPON and WCXI recently modified their applications like this to be Class B for Walled Lake and Fenton. The end result for WCCW would be a decent signal in the Daytime, but they wouldn't be very good if at all in Traverse City at Night. The ideal direction is straight South of Traverse City, so the signal can essentially go straight North. and the WTCM site is more Southwest. In the meantime, WDTW 1310, the old WKNR 1310 Keener 13, has returned to the air and puts a lot of interference over Traverse City at Night. I remember listening to WKNR 1310 at Crystal Lake at Night in the 1960s.

If you look at CDBS applications for WCCW 1310, you'll see that there are three superseded applications. I think it may be one of those before they modified to move.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/puba ... p_sear.htm
I'm surprised WIBA wouldn't be blowing WNIC (AM) away.
I did a LOT of AM BCB DX when my family would have a cabin on Platte Lake. I was able to identify WNIC many times, but WIBA was usually stronger.



CK-722
Posts: 1284
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:53 pm

Re: WCCW AM tower site for sale

Post by CK-722 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:40 pm

A lot of the Wisconsin stations signed off at 10:00 PM in the 1960s. I remember one that signed off for sure at 10:00 PM was WHBL 1330 Sheboygan, WI. I remember one Night in the mid to late 1960s, 1965 or 1967 I think, I'd have to remember the songs that I heard as it was in the same place on Crystal Lake as I recall. I did the transistor under the covers with an earphone in the Night. I remember tuning WKNR 1310, WILS 1320, and WTRX 1330 one after the other one Night.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

Artificial Intelligence is a Child that needs a Parent to guide it through.

statmanmi
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:07 am

Re: WCCW AM tower site for sale

Post by statmanmi » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:19 pm

CK-722 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:04 am
There's lots of ways to go to keep the license for now.
...
Looks like the WCCW site was just the AM tower until the FM antenna was put on the same tower. Described in History Card as on Barney Rd. 2.0 miles West of Traverse City. It was 31 watts PSSA and 500 watts PSA.

https://www.fccdata.org/?lang=en&appid= ... acid=20421

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSea ... Key=106940

They could also acquire a translator for the AM.
CK-722's suspicion and research from last year is spot on, per the FCC filings this week.

Both a STA and License Modification have been submitted, noting Daytime power of 3.25 kW and Nighttime 1.875, from single tower ASR # 1000207 for WCCW (AM). That's indeed the current TL for WCCW-FM's Main, and recently added Auxiliary for WTCM-FM, WCCW-FM, and WJZQ. Structure is recorded as being built in 1992.

Cheers! ~~ Statmanmi



User avatar
MWmetalhead
Site Admin
Posts: 11873
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:23 am

Re: WCCW AM tower site for sale

Post by MWmetalhead » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:12 am

Wow - that's a big power decrease for daytime especially!

Going from 15,000 watts daytime down to 3,250 watts, and from 7,500 watts nighttime down to 1,875 watts.



Kennelly Heaviside
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:06 am

Re: WCCW AM tower site for sale

Post by Kennelly Heaviside » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:22 am

This is a Special Temporary Authority. You are allowed 1/4 power nondirectional, generally for six months, with another six months extension normally granted. Some stations can extend it for years, with assurances that progress is being made on a permanent facility. 1/4 Day power would normally be 15/4=3.75 kW. Not sure why they specified 3.25 kW. They were 5 kW nondirectional from there before. If they ran a few radials from the tower, they could probably use the 15 kW transmitter there nondirectional, as it's 6 miles further from the nearby cochannel and adjacent channel stations. They had a CP for 50 kW Daytime, and the IDF to the South was 1800 mV/m @ 1 km over a wide arc. It's possible that they have old proofs from that site on Barney Rd. somewhere, but I really don't know why they would have. They had 31 watts PSSA from there, but never used it. The original PSSA computations were based on more interference. The current 25% RSS calculation would only allow about 12 watts nondirectional from the 120.3 degree tower. If not for the NIMBYs, you could put a 5 kW Nondirectional Days, and 250 watts Night with a 2 tower DA just South of Traverse City, protecting WIBA, WTLC, and WDTW, and require around a 600 X 500 foot lot for the antenna and transmitter building and ground system. This would be about 7 acres of land. This would serve the immediate Traverse City area quite well, Day and Night. Good for Local Sports PBP though, with full spot loads.

Old and STA facility:

https://www.fccdata.org/?lang=en&appid= ... acid=20421

They apparently never licensed the 31 watt PSSA, apparently based on 40% RSS.


Kennelly Heaviside. The best Technical Consultant no money can buy.

User avatar
TC Talks
Posts: 10104
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:41 am

Re: WCCW AM tower site for sale

Post by TC Talks » Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:55 pm

The towers are gone from the site they have for sale. The shacks are still there...


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

Kennelly Heaviside
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:06 am

Re: WCCW AM tower site for sale

Post by Kennelly Heaviside » Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:00 pm

I thought so. The signal to the North is worse than it was with 5000 watts nondirectional, so I figured that the STA was operating. Why they applied for 3250 watts Day instead of 15000/4=3750 watts which would be allowed puzzles me. 7500/4=1875 watts Night makes sense. However, I wonder that if they leave it on all Night whether they will get complaints from WIBA Madison and others. Good for HS Sports PBP. Are they doing that?

When did the towers come down? Anything on the TV News?

I'll ask Scott Fybush if he knows what the shortest time any array was ever used is. This is pretty short. That's Scott's department..

They had a respectable signal with the 15/7.5 DA-2.


Kennelly Heaviside. The best Technical Consultant no money can buy.

1litemix
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:42 pm

Re: WCCW AM tower site for sale

Post by 1litemix » Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:22 pm

I think Midwestern broadcasting should change 92.9 WJZQ to wtcm gold That is a really good signal



Kennelly Heaviside
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:06 am

Re: WCCW AM tower site for sale

Post by Kennelly Heaviside » Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:44 pm

I've been perusing the previous APPs for WCCW and WTCM. The advantage of these old applications is that they have access to the actual proofs of performance on DAs at the Secor Rd. and Chum's Corner sites. The 50 kW Day APP for WCCW back around 2008, granted but obviously never built, shows actual conductivities from the Chum's Corner site. The conductivity is reduced from M-3 Map values, but in addition, they extended a few radials from the WOOD 1300 20 kW site in Allegan County. That puts the 0.5 mV/m service and 0.25 mV/m first adjacent ground wave interference contours South about 25 miles.

Using the conductivities from the WTCM DA POP, combined with the reduced WOOD contours, that probably WCCW could probably run 15 kW nondirectional from the Secor Rd. site that they modified from 15 kW DA Days, and added one tower for Night Class D service with 130 watts. With deeper nulls in that proposed Night pattern, I would think that they could run 250 watts Night Class B from that site with the proposed extra tower. New Class B rules don't require an NIF over the COL. These maps from the APPs show the Contours from the Secor Rd. site. All the notching in the contours is from the varying MEASURED conductivities in each direction. One limiting factor is you can't radiate more that about 1 kW IDF toward CIWW.

The maps show that the NIF contour from Secor Rd., 27 mV/m, even with 250 watts, wouldn't hit Traverse City very well. And that is the reason they went to Chum's Corners. so that the towers were SW by South, so that the signal went toward TC and not CIWW and the rest.

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Att ... &exhcnum=1

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Att ... &exhcnum=3


Kennelly Heaviside. The best Technical Consultant no money can buy.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic