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What Does the Fox Say? Goodbye...

Covers all of Northern Lower Michigan (from Ludington to Tawas northward), as well as the Straits Area and Soo Region.
cckadlec
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Re: What Does the Fox Say? Goodbye...

Post by cckadlec » Tue Apr 18, 2023 2:12 am

Ben Zonia wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2023 1:07 am
Longley Rice prediction shows that the shoreline areas are generally terrain shadowed, as expected for an inland transmitter location. Nationwide and beyond, the population is concentrated in those low lying areas that are shadowed.

https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php ... beb7&map=Y
Indeed. The shoreline areas in Northern Michigan do indeed have this issue. You are far more likely due to marine inversions to receive signals on the same frequency from the opposite shore. That is just the basics of that situation. As for those living on the opposite shores - such as Wisconsin, areas in the UP, Northern Ontario, and Parry Sound, etc., the signal is more favorable because of how marine inversions work. My point isn't so much to say that the signal gets out well in the more populated areas in its target area - it essentially does not, like you noted - but to say that the signal as a whole gets out like bonkers. It is rather reliable along Minnesota's North Shore even with a semi-local there - though signals such as TCM are as well - and that is a great distance for a signal to be regularly heard (it has been present every time I have visited aside from the period it was off the air).

Placing a signal, even with that power, more in the middle of the forests not greatly close to either coast where most people live isn't the best use of a signal, I will certainly admit. But it sure does get out elsewhere. It reminds me of stations like WBCT with 320kw. I'm well within its local coverage area at about 60 miles, but during any good conditions, the signal can rather easily degrade and be interfered with. But go to the eastern or southern UP or coastal Ontario (Tobermory, Kincardine, etc.), even anywhere within about 30 miles of the Wisconsin shore, the signal is rather reliable in spots during the warmer season. You can even hear it with a little work just a few miles from 93.9 WLIT's tower right in Chicago, under WLIT's IBOC. It's funny how it gets out at such a distance with that power... yet still has issues within its own coverage area. And that is a little like 92.5. Gets out far on the fringes of the signal, but not always the best situation closer to home.


[ Radio and weather geeks, beware! Coastal tropo studies, the 3-hr. Seoul AM Radio Listening Guide, 6-hr. 500 Top-of-Hour IDs, and Chinese FM at www.chriskadlec.comTuner: Grundig G8 • Location: Fremont, Mich. ]

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Ben Zonia
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Re: What Does the Fox Say? Goodbye...

Post by Ben Zonia » Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:13 pm

I notice that phenomenon with WRVM 102.7 Suring, WI showing up all over the place in Michigan, from a somewhat inland transmitter location, and from WIXX 101.1 Green Bay, WI, which is closer to Lake Michigan.

I know the Chicago Skyline Fata Morgana in Berrien County has come up here before, and I know you said that you could not correlate the two, and the different bending angles for 10^8 Hz vs. 10^14 Hz. But has anyone ever seen a tower beacon light showing up in such circumstances, which is not usually seen, close the the horizon? I saw a tower beacon light which I never remember seeing, across a larger inland lake which was very still, a couple nights ago, close to the same angular direction of two other tower lights which are normally seen. The three all had independent blinking times, the visiting beacon slightly lower in elevation angle, looking like AM BC three tower array beacon lights going downhill. The two towers normally seen had clear reflections in the water, the third visitor did not have a refection in the water. I found that odd.
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cckadlec
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Re: What Does the Fox Say? Goodbye...

Post by cckadlec » Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:03 am

Ben Zonia wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:13 pm
I notice that phenomenon with WRVM 102.7 Suring, WI showing up all over the place in Michigan, from a somewhat inland transmitter location, and from WIXX 101.1 Green Bay, WI, which is closer to Lake Michigan.

I know the Chicago Skyline Fata Morgana in Berrien County has come up here before, and I know you said that you could not correlate the two, and the different bending angles for 10^8 Hz vs. 10^14 Hz. But has anyone ever seen a tower beacon light showing up in such circumstances, which is not usually seen, close the the horizon? I saw a tower beacon light which I never remember seeing, across a larger inland lake which was very still, a couple nights ago, close to the same angular direction of two other tower lights which are normally seen. The three all had independent blinking times, the visiting beacon slightly lower in elevation angle, looking like AM BC three tower array beacon lights going downhill. The two towers normally seen had clear reflections in the water, the third visitor did not have a refection in the water. I found that odd.
WRVM is a bit of a special case as it is actually still quite close to the water. While it doesn't look like it on the map, a lot of that signal goes right over the water (Green Bay, i.e. the body of water, is part of those lake breeze circulations of Lake Michigan; the effect of the water pushes inland enough and the higher-powered signals that are inland still easily reach the water with enough power to take part in propagating). It's also a big signal without much else to interfere with it almost anywhere. WMOM doesn't really count as it's dinky in comparison, but WMOM easily wallops WRVM in Wisconsin too, as I've posted here before, and plenty of posts about the opposite effect. I've heard WRVM easily in White Cloud, Big Rapids, and up to Cadillac and eastward with very little enhancement present. I mean, what is standing in its way? When WMOM was off for a year, WRVM could be heard almost everywhere down here in Fremont and southward. When 102.9 Grand Rapids was off before changing to BBN, Indian River was in with RDS almost daily. Apparently without the local on the air, the station would be a regular. Who'd have thought? Before the band was so damn crowded, stations could easily be heard 200 or more miles out pretty regularly. Listening on the north shore of Lake Superior, 200 and 300 mile stations are regular and often in solid because there is nothing else on those frequencies. Northern Michigan ones are common way up there too. 96.3 especially, though with 100kw Houghton signing onto that frequency, those days are done.

As for the mirages, they're quite common everywhere along the coast. It just so happens there are bigger name photographers in the Benton Harbor area that are well-aware of the opportunities to photograph the Chicago skyline. They do a great job! I have dozens of photographs in Muskegon, Manistee, Ludington, etc. but they are usually mirages of water - so you just see a bluish color layer atop the horizon, or you see mirages of the dunes and bluffs up and down the coast, which is more common. You can also see mirages of just air as a clear layer. Most people don't even know it's there, but if you know what you're looking for, you can see mirages rather commonly and they are very much illuminated at sunset as a dark gray layer over the water. In Muskegon, I have seen the Port Washington lighthouse beacon a number of times and Milwaukee from Grand Haven (used to work on the beach in Grand Haven, so you see more things regularly). It's just tough to know what you're seeing sometimes. Could you see radio tower lights? I mean, probably. But you wouldn't easily know it unless they were right beside the water and there are so many red lights around.

And you're right, I annoyingly have not connected mirages to any better or worse reception over the past twenty years. They tend to be rather low-level mirages whereas most signal propagation is best with 2000+ foot inversions over the water. The higher the inversion, the better the signals within it travel inland. If it's smaller, the signals are only heard along the beaches. But plenty of mirages on the water have resulted in dead conditions for me, actually more often than not!! The season for marine inversions usually starts reliably in late May as the mirage season is wrapping up. There is a temperature aspect to both; the mirages are better with much colder water and warmer air above them, while the inversions that produce signal propagation are far better with warmer water (50s to 70s) with warmer air aloft, with exceptions of course.

I always have plenty to say about these topics and will finish posting pages upon pages more of details of this later on this summer on my website, but don't want to bore those who may be seeing this post and only interested in 92.5, so I can discuss any more on the topic when I post on it later on :razz
[ Radio and weather geeks, beware! Coastal tropo studies, the 3-hr. Seoul AM Radio Listening Guide, 6-hr. 500 Top-of-Hour IDs, and Chinese FM at www.chriskadlec.comTuner: Grundig G8 • Location: Fremont, Mich. ]

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Ben Zonia
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Re: What Does the Fox Say? Goodbye...

Post by Ben Zonia » Wed Apr 19, 2023 2:55 am

I still say the index and angle of refraction differs from 10^8 Hz and 5 X 10^14 Hz, and the FM signals are refracted to a different height AGL.

Anyway, I have to wonder if I dreamed it. But that is one of the few times I spotted other towers out that way. If it had blinked in synch with another, I wouldn't have thought there were three. If it was a new tower, or someone buzzed some trees down that blocked it, it would appear other days.

After all this talk of mirages, this song kept coming back to me.

https://www.google.com/search?client=sa ... 4pueEtW5kI
"I had a job for a while as an announcer at WWV but I finally quit, because I couldn't stand the hours."

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Colonel Flagg
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Re: What Does the Fox Say? Goodbye...

Post by Colonel Flagg » Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:58 pm

Did the sale from the former KLT folks to Bill Curtis ever close?
"Don't you knock when you enter a room?"

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Re: What Does the Fox Say? Goodbye...

Post by Colonel Flagg » Wed Apr 19, 2023 6:32 pm

Did the sale from the former KLT folks to Bill Curtis ever close?
"Don't you knock when you enter a room?"

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TC Talks
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Re: What Does the Fox Say? Goodbye...

Post by TC Talks » Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:31 pm

If Bill filed with the FCC, wouldn't that make him the owner?
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bmw
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Re: What Does the Fox Say? Goodbye...

Post by bmw » Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:46 am

They're certainly not broadcasting at full power. The Fox put a stable, car-listenable signal into the entire Tawas area, and the few times they temporarily went back on the air after the sale, the signal was the same. But now, and I've checked several different times on several different days, the station barely puts a flicker of a signal into this area.

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