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TV RF Channel Changes

Covers all of Northern Lower Michigan (from Ludington to Tawas northward), as well as the Straits Area and Soo Region.
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MWmetalhead
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Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:21 pm

I think it is stupid that WGTU and WPBN broadcast from the same tower.

Why not move one of the stations to the Harietta tower so as to render the 15 kW translator unnecessary?


Rock 95.5 in Chicago is the worst sounding major market rock station in the history of corporate radio.

organman95
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Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by organman95 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:10 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:21 pm
I think it is stupid that WGTU and WPBN broadcast from the same tower.

Why not move one of the stations to the Harietta tower so as to render the 15 kW translator unnecessary?
I've thought that from the beginning... isn't WFQX & WWTV doing the same in Cadillac? The power and coverage, to me, doesn't make any sense why one would be less than the other in that case



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MWmetalhead
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Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:14 am

I've thought that from the beginning... isn't WFQX & WWTV doing the same in Cadillac? The power and coverage, to me, doesn't make any sense why one would be less than the other in that case
Yes, but bear in mind the following:
- WWTV gets out really, really well (and both CBS & FOX are available on WWTV's digital signal);
- CBS & FOX are available on WWTV's digital translator in TC;
- CBS & FOX are also available on WFUP (although it appears WFUP might be transmitting at reduced power under an STA at the moment).

So, really, the argument is WFQX is duplicative and unnecessary. However, if Heritage were to ditch WFQX, they'd then need to apply to make WFUP a satellite of WWTV in order to preserve areal coverage of CBS and FOX programming to far northern lower Michigan. I am not sure how easy or difficult that would be. I presume that would be considered a major modification in the eyes of the FCC. Also, I am not sure how or if FOX would tolerate being on a ".2" station, although they seem to have no issue with such a situation in the South Bend market!

While I'm on my soapbox, I've gotta say that the WTOM transmitter site is in such a stupid location!! Tons of coverage overlap with WGTQ, and the areas in the Little Traverse Bay region are either terrain shadowed or suffer from weak signal. In the analog days, the location made sense because cable systems near the Soo and near Alpena could pick up the signal off-air. There are plenty of broadcast towers near Petoskey, Boyne City, etc. WTOM should move to one of those.


Rock 95.5 in Chicago is the worst sounding major market rock station in the history of corporate radio.

organman95
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Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by organman95 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:04 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:14 am
I've thought that from the beginning... isn't WFQX & WWTV doing the same in Cadillac? The power and coverage, to me, doesn't make any sense why one would be less than the other in that case
Yes, but bear in mind the following:
- WWTV gets out really, really well (and both CBS & FOX are available on WWTV's digital signal);
- CBS & FOX are available on WWTV's digital translator in TC;
- CBS & FOX are also available on WFUP (although it appears WFUP might be transmitting at reduced power under an STA at the moment).

So, really, the argument is WFQX is duplicative and unnecessary. However, if Heritage were to ditch WFQX, they'd then need to apply to make WFUP a satellite of WWTV in order to preserve areal coverage of CBS and FOX programming to far northern lower Michigan. I am not sure how easy or difficult that would be. I presume that would be considered a major modification in the eyes of the FCC. Also, I am not sure how or if FOX would tolerate being on a ".2" station, although they seem to have no issue with such a situation in the South Bend market!

While I'm on my soapbox, I've gotta say that the WTOM transmitter site is in such a stupid location!! Tons of coverage overlap with WGTQ, and the areas in the Little Traverse Bay region are either terrain shadowed or suffer from weak signal. In the analog days, the location made sense because cable systems near the Soo and near Alpena could pick up the signal off-air. There are plenty of broadcast towers near Petoskey, Boyne City, etc. WTOM should move to one of those.
In regards to FOX being on .2, isn't FOXUP on .2, and either .2 or .3 in Alpena? I don't think it's much of an issue these days, as long as the coverage and advertising are there.

And for the WTOM - WGTQ overlap... I've said that since the beginning of the simulcasting. Without looking at the charts, couldn't WGTQ be moved closer to St. Ignace to cover that entire area and then simply dump WTOM? I would think that would be a H*** savings. I will say, back in the analog days, it was kind of fun in Cheboygan to simply turn a television on without any antenna, and receive WTOM in some sort of quality, depending where you were from the transmitter. I lived about 3 miles as the crow flies, and could get it clear as day without an antenna. If the air was blowing just right, I could also pickup WGTQ without an antenna, granted exceptionally low quality picture lol.



statmanmi
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Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by statmanmi » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:28 pm

Hi makitaman,

I'm catching on from other sources that the WWTV translator ("repeater") by Traverse City did make the switch to RF25 earlier this month.

They didn't seem to mention it on their main website, but Google found me their Facebook post:

https://m.facebook.com/9and10news/ph...57&__tn__=EH-R


And one contributor to the Live Bandscan pages of RabbitEars.Info caught the new RF25 signal this month...notice last month's RF40 record as well:

https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php?...tzone=ET&unit=

Do the Virtual Channels list as 9-1 CBS, 9-2 FOX, etc. on TVs -- Or are the whole numbers something other than 9?


Likely you know the WPBN Harrietta switch happened in December to RF22 (and also the coinciding damage to WIAA FM 88.3 MHz infrastructure, taking them off the air at that time).

I believe the WMNN to RF17 (with higher power than ever before = 15 Kw ERP) and WXII digital companion signal on RF30 are still forthcoming, unless you or someone have witnessed otherwise. I'm down in Kent County, so don't have boots-on-the-ground current knowledge (until my various family Up North let me at the TV remote while I visit--after the Stay Home & Stay Safe orders ultimately conclude).

Cheers! ~~ Statmanmi

makitaman wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:45 pm
Still waiting for the last 4 channel changes:

17 will be WMNN-Lake City from 14
22 will be WPBN-Harrietta from 50
25 will be WWTV-Traverse City from 40 (hope it doesn't wipe out WPNE WPT2 across the lake...Movies in HD)
30 will be WXII- Traverse City from 12 analog


29 WGTU, 34 WCMV & 35 WPBN looks great now from the Kalkaska tower !!

CW looks great in HD on 32-2 from Dighton.



makitaman
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Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by makitaman » Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:53 am

Hi right back to you statmanmi,

WWTV had a crawl on the channel saying they were working on RF 25 the other day.

I keep Trip up to date in Virginia...…..he runs Rabbitears.

All three TV's here show 9-1 to 9-6 on both RF 9 and RF 25

Still waiting for two stations in Green Bay and Eric's two here to make the switch.



statmanmi
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Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by statmanmi » Thu May 14, 2020 11:39 pm

Glad you update Trip makitaman. He continues to patiently wait for me to gather and forward TSReader logs for the stations I receive. Earlier this month my RCA mast-mounted pre-amplifier quit being reliable. I and my wife don't want me to risk some sort of fall from the ladder or roof, so I've temporarily setup antennas in the garage attic...which has made my WWTV reception infrequent. Namely because my primary goal is to keep getting the local signals relevant to Kent County from the south. Unprecedented times we're in to drive decisions like this.

WGTU's modification to 1 million watts ERP was granted earlier this week.

Given that they use the shared antenna and transmission line on the Kalkaska tower that just had more than a once-over to handle the WPBN and WCMV repack frequency changes, my novice thought is that only work in the building at the tower's base will be needed. I won't speculate if their existing transmitter can just be dialed up from 68.4 kW to 1,000 kW or not. (Man, seems like that'll be something--going 14+ times greater!) Nor will I hope that they'll add an interesting sub-channel not currently offered in the area.

The modifications/increases requested by WWTV and WFQX remain open for continued consideration by the FCC. I've noticed that in addition to WGTU's maximization request, others for non-repacked stations have started to trickle through as granted. One of the first was up in Marquette: WZMQ RF19 (with 19.1 as MeTV) has approval now to go from 31 kW ERP to 255 kW.

Cheers! Statmanmi
makitaman wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:32 am
Attention OTA TV Fans

WWTV-9 increase from 45kw to 51.8kw / ch.40 change to ch.25 15kw
WMNN-14 increase to 15kw and change to ch.17
WCMV-17 increase to 576kw and change to ch.34
WGTU-29 increase to 1 million watts
WFQX-32 increase to 1 million watts
WPBN-47 increase to 850kw and change to ch.35 / ch.50 change to ch.18 TC & ch.22 Harrietta 15kw

Don't know when this will happen and all channels are in actual RF listings don't get me started on PSIP virtual channels.



innate-in-you
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Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by innate-in-you » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:42 pm

Nelson wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:44 pm
Interesting (and thank you for listing them by RF channel; PSIPs are just annoying). I wonder if I'll be able to get WMNN in East Jordan.

Also, I know the upper UHF channels were sold off and stations occupying those channels have to move. However, why is WMNN moving from 14 to 17? I don't see what that accomplishes. Same with WCMV going from 17 to 34. Why? Seems like that would be a big unnecessary expense for the station.
Rather, a big expense for YOU.
Some of the revenue goes to companies that build ATSC transmitting antennas, transmitters, tower sections, pass filters, tower crew salaries, ad nauseum.



makitaman
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Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by makitaman » Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:34 pm

Good Bad and Ugly

I need 14 cleared so WGBA in Green Bay will come back in.
I am fine with the signal strength on 14 but friends will like the power increase on 17
22 in Harrietta is now blocking WFRE CBS in Green Bay (ugly)
25 in TC is now blocking WPNE in Green Bay (ugly)
When 11 goes to 12 in Green Bay I need 12 analog to get on up to 30

18,22 and 35............really ?? Can't say anyone will not get at least one of these channels.



makitaman
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Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by makitaman » Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:02 am

WOW !!

WCWF is full strength over here in Kingsley now. It is using RF 15 and beaming this way. CW is 1080i and has Charge network. WLUK is now on RF 12 and is looking good as well. FOX, Antenna and TBD networks.

Looking forward to RF 17 and RF 30 still.



makitaman
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Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by makitaman » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:47 am

Well it has changed......

WMNN switched from RF 14 to RF 17 and looks quite good. Stronger signal.



Nelson
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Location: East Jordan, MI

Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by Nelson » Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:56 pm

Thanks for keeping us updated. I guess I need to rescan and see what I can get!



statmanmi
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Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by statmanmi » Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:16 pm

makitaman wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:47 am
Well it has changed......

WMNN switched from RF 14 to RF 17 and looks quite good. Stronger signal.
Hi makitaman, Thanks again for your posts, and updating Trip at Rabbitears. The station's own site does at least have a posting about needing to re-scan on or after 7/17: http://www.minews26.com/content/having- ... n-your-tv/


I'm hoping in the coming weeks to get to Trip some more TSReader files for the stations Up North, including WMNN. Those of us that geek out almost too much on these topics like to see how many bits are going to each sub-channel. Knowing that you're keeping him posted on any subchannel content changes will save me time from trying to get those written down.

I wonder if Mr. Wotila has the same tower crew lined up for installing all equipment needed for the digital companion channel for WXII-LP on RF30? My guess is that you're already scanning weekly or so because of this same thought.


Hi Nelson, Of course you're always welcome to re-scan, just to see if anything new or long-distance comes in at that moment. But I'm guessing you might not get WMNN, even with their increased power. And perhaps the digital content when it starts from WXII-LP might also be too far away--I can't quite recall your location. Your parents won't receive either, I'm afraid, since they're so far north.

Cheers! ~~ Statmanmi



hunterw
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Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by hunterw » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:19 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:21 pm
I think it is stupid that WGTU and WPBN broadcast from the same tower.

Why not move one of the stations to the Harietta tower so as to render the 15 kW translator unnecessary?
Back in the Analog days. Wasn’t Harrietta the primary location for WPBN. Remember being able to get 7, 9, and 21 really well near ludington and manistee area. 33, 27, and 13 did also come in but not as well.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: TV RF Channel Changes

Post by MWmetalhead » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:43 am

Correct. Antenna was nearly 1400 feet above average terrain, too! They were far & away the strongest VHF signal in the Ludington area. Viewers with an outdoor antenna as far south as northern Muskegon County and maybe even far northern Kent County could receive the station regularly. Reception wasn't great north of M-72, however.


Rock 95.5 in Chicago is the worst sounding major market rock station in the history of corporate radio.

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