digital TV signals

[Feature/writer]

Is there a single best location to find the list of digital TV signals, sub-channels of the main over-the-air TV signals in West Michigan? (Such as 13-1, 13-2, 13-3, etc.),
I believe almost all the major over-the-air TV channels have these sub-channels, many of which are not picked up by area cable TV/dish delivery systems.
Also, is there a way to determine the strength or range of these relatively low-power signals? And what kind of TV receiver or antenna is best to capture them? Thanks -

[SolarMax]

Is there a single best location to find the list of digital TV signals, sub-channels of the main over-the-air TV signals in West Michigan? (Such as 13-1, 13-2, 13-3, etc.),
I believe almost all the major over-the-air TV channels have these sub-channels, many of which are not picked up by area cable TV/dish delivery systems.
Also, is there a way to determine the strength or range of these relatively low-power signals? And what kind of TV receiver or antenna is best to capture them? Thanks -

rabbitears.info, antennaweb.org and other sites can be searched by market area for channels.
If you know what stations are available, often their individual websites may list out what their digital offerings are. Even a wikipedia search by callsigns will list all of a station's digital channels.
The "sub channels" are not low or lower power; they originate from the same transmitter and antenna as the "main" x.1 signal, but stations have to divvy up the the limited digital bandwidth permitted. Most keep their primary money maker service as 1080i HD, and the "subs" at standard def and at a much lower bit rate. Most receivers are able to show a signal level bar or meter, or at least provide a "good" or "poor" signal level callout.
Of necessity any modern receiver has to "capture" ATSC DTV signals (that's all there are). Use the "scan" function to latch onto all the local signals. An outdoor antenna is always best but there are decent indoor units available, some amplified, that others here may have experience with and can review. Depending on what stations are available to you, a UHF-only antenna may do the job, unless one or more of them are on a VHF RF channel, which some antennas don't do well with.

[Feature/writer]

Thanks......
Interesting that at my location in the southern part of Plainfield Township, Kent County; my RV parked in my back yard can receive about 20 of these channels with its Winegard antenna system.
Yet inside my house I can't receive any of these, even with an amplifier plugged into my "space ship" style disc antenna in my attic. What's my next step to latch onto those signals?

[MWmetalhead]

Your disc antenna is probably designed for UHF only. The real channels on which WWMT, WOOD, WGVU and WZZM transmit are all VHF.

Amplifiers sometimes hurt things more than they help. They sometimes introduce noise. I would remove the amplifier to see if that helps matters.

[Jason Kragt]

Any good antenna for this area will need to have elements almost 3 feet wide in order to capture or reflect those VHF signals--about 1/2 the wavelength. Anything smaller won't be reliable unless you are relatively close to the transmitter. Some of those "space ship" and related antennas look cool, but for VHF, the bigger/uglier ones win.

Those are also the channels that amplifiers seem to hurt more than help. An unamplified, unsplit RG6 coax line works best. I have a pretty expensive Channel Master 7777 amplifier and it does more bad than good for VHF. (However, it helps WLLA immensely.)

The smallest attic antenna I would recommend is the RCA ANT754E or similar. It's not a fringe antenna, but it at least has the elements you need to pick up all the stations in the market (except WGVK). It is small enough to mount in the attic, yet large enough to pick up VHF.

If you already have UHF covered, I found the Stellar Labs 30-2476 to be a good VHF-only antenna. I can often pick up WWTV in Cadillac from here in Saugatuck--110 miles away! Just don't expect it to deliver any UHF performance (WOTV, WXMI, WZPX, WLLA).

[tvbobn]

Is there a single best location to find the list of digital TV signals, sub-channels of the main over-the-air TV signals in West Michigan? (Such as 13-1, 13-2, 13-3, etc.),
I believe almost all the major over-the-air TV channels have these sub-channels, many of which are not picked up by area cable TV/dish delivery systems.
Also, is there a way to determine the strength or range of these relatively low-power signals? And what kind of TV receiver or antenna is best to capture them? Thanks -

Try https://www.rabbitears.info

At the top under Listings click on Market Listings, then go down to #44 Grand Rapids market where it will open with all the area stations.

It shows the Display channel and the Physical channel for each station in the left side.

Under the Station list, click on any station call sign link. Then you'll see information about that station.

Then click on the Technical Data. That page shows the various sub-channels with names of the networks on those channels.

Below that info look for "DTV-LIC:" followed by the station channel number. Click this link and it opens to the coverage map of that station. With your mouse roll in or out to see if you're in the coverage area. You can zoom close enough to see street names. It will show you where the transmitter is located.

Generally, you should be inside the red circle to receive this station. The farther from the transmitter site will likely require an outside antenna. If you're close to a tower site, you might be able to use rabbit ears inside.

The main list shows all the licensed stations in the marker including the low power stations. They broadcast just like the big stations, but with smaller transmitters, thus smaller coverage areas.

Good luck searching for the information you are looking to find.

[statmanmi]

Hi Feature/writer,

I'll add to all the great points given above.

As MW pointed out, 4 of the broadcasts in the West Michigan market are on (High) VHF wavelengths. Most markets our size have only one VHF broadcast, by the way. Jason noted about wanting an antenna with dipoles 3 feet wide, which is my understanding as well for High-VHF reception. He further cited the RCA antenna that Menards keeps in stock, the ANT75__, as for a long time these were ANT751...but some packaging and economizing has advanced the last digit and letter of the model number. Earlier this year I put one of these in my parents'-in-law garage attic east of Rockford with good results.

I'm guessing your RV antenna is a Winegard "batwing" style, that has the necessary 3 foot wingspan. If you reply in this thread or Private Message me with the specific 20 channels you're receiving, I can help identify what you're lacking. I'd guess you're getting 8.1, 8.2, 8.3, and 15.1, as examples (from WOOD TV's main broadcast signal).

tvbobn recommended the website for the information about broadcasts and their subchannels that I spend too much time looking at: Rabbitears.info . Using the Signal Search Map functionality will give you a customized listing for your location: https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php . The website's author provides this page of usage information: https://www.rabbitears.info/static.php? ... structions .

Having a TV antenna inside an attic loses at least a third of the possible signal strength, if not more. If the attic has foil radiant barrier, or if the structure has metal siding or roofing, it'll be even less signal that comes through. But you allude to not receiving even one station, which may mean that the coax line or other component inline between the aerial and your TV tuner has failed.

Honestly, trying any antenna outside first, pointed toward Gun Lake, with a short coax run into a TV is a good starting point.

You mention you're in southern Plainfield Township. There's a poster in the avsforum.com thread for our market that's near Knapp's Corner that gets all expected channels. I also have successfully helped friends not far north of Comstock Park High School with their antennas. But if you're down in the Grand River valley, the signals might not reach you very well.

Since I am one to geek out on OTA TV reception, here's an example report from RabbitEars, using the location of the Northview High School football field with the antenna expected to be 25 feet above ground level: https://www.rabbitears.info/s/1119042 . Since there are many hills in Plainfield Township, this might not be indicative of your exact location. However, it'll show you what channels (virtual numbers/display channels) are available--just click on each station's call sign. As an example, clicking on the four letters WXMI shows that their broadcast transmission provides:

15.2 Stadium
17.1 Fox
17.2 Antenna TV
17.3 Bounce TV
17.4 Defy TV
17.5 GetTV
17.6 ShopLC

Happy signal hunting! ~~ Statmanmi

[Feature/writer]

From original poster in this thread.
for statmanmi or others who may be interested...
These are the digital signals I'm receiving in my RV with my Winegard Sensar III antenna (no "wingman" accessories). Outside my home in southern Plainfield Twp.
----with antenna wings pointing to a north and south configurations:
scanned 18 channels:
13-1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
35-1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
54-1, 2, 6
-----with antenna wings in an East to West configuration:
18 register on auto scan
13-1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
35-1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (triggered an auto scan, but no reception on these)
54-1, 2, 6
-----with antenna wings pointed in roughly a NW-SE configuration (314-134 degrees)
auto scan for 9 channels
35-1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, (however, a weaker signal)
54-1, 2, 6 (pixely)
13 - none of those scanned or received,,
-----antenna positioned in attic would be about 10-15 feet higher altitude than RV antenna

[MWmetalhead]

You need some combination of a better antenna, better tuner or better coax, it would appear. A raise in height may also work. There must be a terrain obstruction between your receive location and the Middleville / Gun Lake area, since none of those stations were receivable.

WXSP (I-96 and Fruit Ridge Dr.) broadcasts WOOD, WWMT, WXMI and I think WOTV in hi-def in ATSC 3.0, if you wish to try a standalone ATSC 3.0 tuner box that can be plugged into your TV via HDMI.

[Jason Kragt]

I would suggest going to TVFool.com and creating a map.

The Grand River makes a loop as it goes from Ada to Belmont to downtown GR. Are you by any chance just south of the river in the loop area? If so, then it is a height issue. That area is too low and the towers down toward Middleville and Gun Lake just can't see you. I checked a random address in the area and WOOD, WXMI and WWMT are 1Edge. WOTV is 2Edge. They are all close enough (30 miles) but obstructed. That's a big disadvantage of your location.

As MW pointed out, you also have a big advantage if you are willing to buy an ATSC 3.0 ("NextGenTV") tuner and plug it into an HDMI port. WXSP is probably less than 10 miles away from you. It broadcasts all four major networks (plus MyNetworkTV) in HD using ATSC 3.0. You shouldn't have any problem receiving them. Plus, you will continue to receive the PBS (WGVU) and second ABC (WZZM) channels that you do now. It might be pretty slick. The advantage of ATSC 3.0 is that they can pack a ton of HD channels on one station.

The only things you would be missing with that solution are WZPX (43) and WLLA (64). Both of them pretty much just broadcast rerun and shopping channels in SD, so unless you are looking for a specific subchannel like MeTV, CourtTV, Heroes and Icons, or Catchy Comedy, you won't be missing much.

[DJ-MichaelAngelo]

Is there a single best location to find the list of digital TV signals, sub-channels of the main over-the-air TV signals in West Michigan? (Such as 13-1, 13-2, 13-3, etc.),
I believe almost all the major over-the-air TV channels have these sub-channels, many of which are not picked up by area cable TV/dish delivery systems.
Also, is there a way to determine the strength or range of these relatively low-power signals? And what kind of TV receiver or antenna is best to capture them? Thanks -

Try https://www.rabbitears.info

At the top under Listings click on Market Listings, then go down to #44 Grand Rapids market where it will open with all the area stations.

It shows the Display channel and the Physical channel for each station in the left side.

Under the Station list, click on any station call sign link. Then you'll see information about that station.

Then click on the Technical Data. That page shows the various sub-channels with names of the networks on those channels.

Below that info look for "DTV-LIC:" followed by the station channel number. Click this link and it opens to the coverage map of that station. With your mouse roll in or out to see if you're in the coverage area. You can zoom close enough to see street names. It will show you where the transmitter is located.

Generally, you should be inside the red circle to receive this station. The farther from the transmitter site will likely require an outside antenna. If you're close to a tower site, you might be able to use rabbit ears inside.

The main list shows all the licensed stations in the marker including the low power stations. They broadcast just like the big stations, but with smaller transmitters, thus smaller coverage areas.

Good luck searching for the information you are looking to find.

That is a big help, thanks! That rabbitears.info website is far from user-friendly, your instructions made it easy to figure out what to do (I would've never discovered that on my own). I was able to confirm I'm well within the boundary lines for WWMT Ch. 3 which for some reason comes in spotty for me sometimes in Rockford.