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WZPX (ION) files app to move closer to Grand Rapids

Discussion pertaining to Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Muskegon, Battle Creek, Big Rapids, and Michiana
Random_Dude
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Re: WZPX (ION) files app to move closer to Grand Rapids

Post by Random_Dude » Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:51 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:27 am
Interesting. The ION link says RF 21 won't be broadcasting at full power until December 17.

Thanks for posting those links.

Reception of WOTV will not guarantee reception of WZPX even once it's broadcasting at full power. Bear in mind WZPX will be broadcasting with a highly directional signal that will favor areas to the north of Gun Lake (GR, Ionia, Holland) and disfavor areas to the south (Kalamazoo, BC).

Also, WZPX's antenna will be side mounted about 150 feet below the WOTV antenna. Elevation does make a difference.
Sorry for the delayed reply, I had came back and read a few more replies in this thread, but didn't have time to respond, then just kinda lost track of it.

I should have mentioned in my original post that I live in the Cutlerville area (M-6 & US-131), so I knew the direction of the signal would actually be favorable to me. Since the the re-scan, I have been able to pick up both WZPX 43 and WOTV 41 rock solid, most of the time. There were a couple really windy days where I got some pixelation, but that is because I use one of those omni-directional "Frisbee" like antennas at the top of 15 feet of mast pole. That thing sways pretty good in the wind.

The thing that brought me back here was on Tuesday about 09:30, I was watching ch 43 and it went black, I hit the ch down button which tuned to WOTV 41.4, that was also dark. I actually went outside to make sure my antenna was still upright, it was, and a check of the other channels showed all was well there. A few minutes later, both stations had reappeared on my screen and it was business as usual. It may have just been a coincidence, but I looked at the calendar, and it was Dec. 17, the day for the full power re-scan. Since both stations had been coming in fine before the signal loss, I can't say that I see any improvement (there was no room for any, unless we get another really windy day)
statmanmi wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:36 pm

It seems that WZPX never did operate under their STA for RF21.

On 10/29/2019, they filed their License to Cover for the permanent antenna at 278 meters HAAT, with the document signed that day. So either they were on the interim for a few days, or not at all. I'm guessing the latter, what with the ancedotal insight of postings in this thread and my own findings that the RF21 signal came in strong from its inception.


WOTV does seem to still be on reduced coverage, as their most recent FCC filing is a Transition Plan Progress Report on 10/23/2019, offering explanation: Station will operate on an interim antenna under STA until the final antenna can be installed.


Thus, it seems at this moment that the WZPX signal is coming off the tower higher than the WOTV interim one. I continue to get both great at my eastern Kent County (almost Greenville) location.

Cheers! ~~ Statmanmi
After seeing this, it may have just been a coincidence, or maybe 43 had to go down for some reason when (if) 41 went to full power.

I've also noticed that in the last few days I now can receive WLLA 64 and it has transitioned from RF 45 to RF 22.

And one more thing, maybe this should be in it's own thread, I was surprised that no one here has mentioned it yet, but right after the re-scan, I noticed that WXMI 17 dropped the "THIS Network" from 17.3 and replaced it with Court TV.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the outcome of the re-scan, I now get 36 channels (including sub channels) and the HD ones have better quality than the paid services, and it's free! For the record I receive at my home, reliably:

WWMT
3.1 CBS
3.2 The CW
3.3 Comet
WOOD 8
8.1 NBC
8.2 Bounce
8.3 Laff
WXSP
15.1 MY Network TV
15.2 Cozi TV
15.3 Escape
WXMI
17.1 FOX
17.2 Antenna TV
17.3 Court TV
17.4 Charge
WUHQ
29.1 Daystar
29.2 Daystar (not sure why, same content on both 29.x)
WGVU
35.1 PBS
35.2 PBS Kids
35.3 WGVU Life
35.4 WGVU MHz
35.5 WGVU Program Guide, and audio from "1480 Real Oldies" Radio Station
WOTV
41.1 ABC
41.2 GET TV
41.3 Grit
41.4 Radar (News 8 )
WZPX
43.1 ION
43.2 Qubo
43.3 ION Plus
43.4 SHOP
43.5 QVC
43.6 HSN
WTLJ
54.1 TCT HD
54.2 TCT SD
54.3 Light TV
WLLA
64.1 IND Religious
64.2 ME TV
64.3 Retro TV

The only one I don't get that I should is WZZM 13, it's 35 miles from me and the signal needs to cut across most of the city to get to me, but, I can get ABC from WOTV, so all I miss from them is the local stuff (for what that's worth, I can stream the news online from them) and the sub channels.

Also, since I mentioned it in my original post, within a week of the repack taking place, T-Mobile turned on the towers that they had pre-installed the 600MHz equipment on while waiting for the repack. That equipment was also capable of 5G (at 600MHz), and they flipped the switch for that on Dec. 6. That helped to fill in holes for my cell coverage, no more dropped calls, and a little more than half of the time I can get a 5G signal in the West Michigan area (at least in the places I have been). This is not the Millimeter Wave service with the 1 gbps plus speeds, (and the range of a WIFI router) but with 600 MHz, the signals travel further and have better building penetration. So far the best speed I've gotten is 238 Mbps down/53.7Mbps up. It's a modest improvement, on 4G LTE the highest I got was 168 down/40 up, and it averaged from 80 -120 down and 20-40 up.

Anyway, thanks all for the additional info and Happy Holidays!



MasterB
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Re: WZPX (ION) files app to move closer to Grand Rapids

Post by MasterB » Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:40 pm

And one more thing, maybe this should be in it's own thread, I was surprised that no one here has mentioned it yet, but right after the re-scan, I noticed that WXMI 17 dropped the "THIS Network" from 17.3 and replaced it with Court TV.
Court TV was talked about in Nexstar & Tribune merger that happened on Oct 28TH.


Go Pistons, Let's Go Redwings.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: WZPX (ION) files app to move closer to Grand Rapids

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:27 am

My folks live near where you do, Random_Dude.

Many years ago, a TV in the basement (near a daylight window) did not have cable connected to it. I was stunned by the poor reception of WZZM's analog signal. Picture was very snowy and rabbit ears had to be aimed just right to get clean audio. The only "local" stations with poorer reception than WZZM were WXSP and WUHQ (channel 29), neither of which would come in at all.

I think construction of M-6 did a number on TV reception for homes sitting in low lying areas immediately south.

Interestingly, on that same TV set, even WZPX's reception was halfway decent (some snow, but not nearly as noisy as the WZZM picture) and I could even pick up a viewable signal (w/ clean audio) from WILX-TV most of the time! In fact, 10's audio sounded cleaner than that of WZZM.

WLLA was a complete no-go on that set despite WOTV coming in nearly crystal clear. I realize WLLA in the analog era had a directional signal, but the GR area was in one of the supposed lobes of the pattern. There's no way in hell WLLA back then was broadcasting anywhere near its licensed ERP.

Given how miserable WZZM's analog signal used to be in that neck of the woods, it comes as no surprise that their digital signal is a difficult catch.


Lori Bennett and Bob Walker have turned WLAV from an iconic classic rock station into a ratings boondoggle. Sad.

CK-722
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Re: WZPX (ION) files app to move closer to Grand Rapids

Post by CK-722 » Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:46 am

Before WUHQ 41 went on the air and had ABC, there was a translator for WZZM-TV, W12AP, in Kalamazoo. Anyone have any details on that? As I recall, it was 100 watts. Not sure of the TL. The oldengineer probably would have known.

I'm sure the executives at WKZO-TV 3 and WOOD-TV 8 were thrilled that WZZM-TV ended up way out West of Grant, and that people had to put up a new antenna in a different direction to get it well. They had an "area special" so you could get 3, 8, and 13. The antennas used to be all over Grand Rapids in the 1960s and 1970s. There's a lot of History on the History Card for WZZM-TV. It started out with an STA as I recall, on a tower near where WLHT is now located. There is also some information about the History of Channel 13 in Grand Rapids in Don DeGroot's autobiography (out of print, but you might find it in a library, or snippets on Google Books). He worked as a manager for the company that put it on the air, until they yanked their authorization and gave it to the competing applicant. He then returned to WWJ.

They also tried to move the transmitter to West of Hudsonville, but the owners of WUHQ filed a Petition to Deny based on ABC Network overlap.

I'm sure oldzzmfmjock knows more details.

Image


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CK-722
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Re: WZPX (ION) files app to move closer to Grand Rapids

Post by CK-722 » Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:40 pm

WZZM 13 History Card link.

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/prod/c ... r_id=87059

Application for TL West of Hudsonville coordinates, circa 1969. Petitions to Deny granted.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/42°52 ... 85.9577778


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

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MWmetalhead
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Re: WZPX (ION) files app to move closer to Grand Rapids

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:04 pm

I love the old logo! :8)

How ironic that WUHQ filed a petition to deny when they, themselves, infringed on WZZM's existing coverage area. I can only surmise that the FCC was more sympathetic to WUHQ by sole virtue of the fact (a) they were the first TV station with a Battle Creek COL and (b) they were a UHF station, not VHF.

The funny thing is, a southern Ottawa County tower placement would've delivered no more than a Grade B signal to Battle Creek. I saw that Hudsonville CP listed in some old broadcasting yearbooks from the early 70's. The tower height was only going to be about 700 feet, if I remember correctly.

The proposed site for the never-built WZZM tower is due east of the present day WKLQ-FM tower. I want to say less than a mile east, maybe even a half mile.

From that site, TV-13 would've delivered an absolutely phenomenal signal to the immediate GR Metro and Holland, a good signal to Muskegon, and a usable signal to Kalamazoo.


Lori Bennett and Bob Walker have turned WLAV from an iconic classic rock station into a ratings boondoggle. Sad.

fuzzpower
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Re: WZPX (ION) files app to move closer to Grand Rapids

Post by fuzzpower » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:41 pm

Battle Creek had a failed station, and a never built CP. That also likely played a factor into it, because they wanted UHF to work.

With cable being what it is, I am surprised ABC still affiliates with 41. WZZM could always put up another translator if they ever become the sole affiliate for the market.



CK-722
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Re: WZPX (ION) files app to move closer to Grand Rapids

Post by CK-722 » Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:39 pm

WZZM-TV proposed a waiver of CFR 47 Section 73.610(b)(1), which requires 170 miles (actually 169.5 miles) between the transmitters (WSPD-TV/WTVG) in the application to move the TL. They also proposed a reduced ERP of 228 kW Visual 45.6 kW Aural. The HAAT was not shown on the History Card. The waiver was denied.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

Artificial Intelligence is a Child that needs a Parent to guide it through.

CK-722
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Re: WZPX (ION) files app to move closer to Grand Rapids

Post by CK-722 » Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:34 pm

cs15 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:15 am
I'm just south of Flint in Grand Blanc and I can pick up both WTVS & WDCQ. This is with a homemade 4 bay antenna mounted on the roof of my ranch home.
Not sure how this comment ended up here.

Grand Blanc is quite a bit higher in elevation than Flint. There are also some ridges near Genesee (village) where the Detroit UHFs come in considerably better. Once you get to around Clio, its downhill and quite flat to Quanicassee.

Grand Rapids was once called the Valley City and is also in a terrain hole near the Grand River. Way far out signals vary considerably in different locations.

Most cities are at lower elevation than the surrounding areas, as they are located mainly near rivers, streams, lakes, and oceans. If they are in a coastal plain, or a lake plain, like Chicago, the city is low but flat for several miles inland. This helps to serve the coastal area, like between Chicago and Milwaukee.

From transmitters inland at high elevation, there is almost always a shadowed area next the body of water.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

Artificial Intelligence is a Child that needs a Parent to guide it through.

CK-722
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:53 pm

Re: WZPX (ION) files app to move closer to Grand Rapids

Post by CK-722 » Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:18 pm

By the way, the WZZM application site West of Hudsonville is about 15 miles short spaced. It was barely fully spaced at the LIC location.

Something I don't think I remember reading before. WZZM Upside Down Spells...WZZM.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

Artificial Intelligence is a Child that needs a Parent to guide it through.

ftballfan
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Re: WZPX (ION) files app to move closer to Grand Rapids

Post by ftballfan » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:01 am

CK-722 wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:39 pm
WZZM-TV proposed a waiver of CFR 47 Section 73.610(b)(1), which requires 170 miles (actually 169.5 miles) between the transmitters (WSPD-TV/WTVG) in the application to move the TL. They also proposed a reduced ERP of 228 kW Visual 45.6 kW Aural. The HAAT was not shown on the History Card. The waiver was denied.
If WZZM had been able to go through with those facilities, I wonder if a translator or translators would have popped up for WZZM in the northern part of its viewing area



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