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WLAV Tower Relocation - new update 7/29

Discussion pertaining to Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Muskegon, Battle Creek, Big Rapids, and Michiana
originalzzmfmjock
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Re: WLAV Tower Relocation

Post by originalzzmfmjock » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:46 pm

I think the cold weather and the snow cover may have something to do with LAV's better signal lately. I've heared some of the lower power FM's and pirate stations in places I don't usually hear them. I'm also getting some HD FM signals in the house that I don't usually hear. The noise floor on the FM band has been very quiet the past couple of weeks.



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TheGadgetGuy
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Re: WLAV Tower Relocation

Post by TheGadgetGuy » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:45 pm

Cumulus has filed to extend WLAV's STA to operate from the WGVU-TV site for another 180 days: https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Att ... &exhcnum=1

The extension request also notes that they are currently preparing an application for a new permanent site and expects to file that application within the next 30 days.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: WLAV Tower Relocation

Post by MWmetalhead » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:31 pm

Are they actually using the GVSU site? Anyone in Ottawa County know? If they are indeed using it - your signal should be good (western Ottawa County) or phenomenal (eastern Ottawa County).

I'll find out for myself tomorrow, as I'll be driving to G.R.


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CK-722
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Re: WLAV Tower Relocation

Post by CK-722 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:37 pm

Where oh where is the new permanent site? Does it closely emulate the old site service area, or does it sacrifice service under the newer Section 73.213, or the Section 73.213 from the heyday of short spaced Class B upgrades and relocations, where 50 kW/500 feet was allowed to be significantly short spaced to grandfathered short spaced stations, and substantial zones with 20 kW/500 feet, 10 kW/500 feet, and even an extremely short spaced 5 kW/500 feet, which I can't think of a single example of. 10 kW/500 feet was used for WJBL-FM/WKLQ Holland, the first move in. Then they allowed mutually agreed upgrades with 50 kW/500 feet and 100 kW/1000 feet directional for WCEN. Now WLAV sister stations WFBE and WOIA/WIQB/WWWW-FM were also 10 kW nondirectional from short towers, now with taller antennas, but with DAs.


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TheGadgetGuy
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Re: WLAV Tower Relocation

Post by TheGadgetGuy » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:28 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:31 pm
Are they actually using the GVSU site? Anyone in Ottawa County know? If they are indeed using it - your signal should be good (western Ottawa County) or phenomenal (eastern Ottawa County).

I'll find out for myself tomorrow, as I'll be driving to G.R.
Pretty sure that they have to be since the STA for the WTNR site is expired now.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: WLAV Tower Relocation

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:52 pm

Nope. They definitely are on the 107.3 site still. Crystal clear signal in Ionia County. Listenable signal as far away as west Lansing.

Yet another fuck up by Cumulus engineering. Is anyone surprised? I'm sure not!!

I don't think the FCC monitors STAs very closely, so I doubt there will be repercussions.

Edit - the same improvement in signal strength in Byron Twp. I noticed in February is still there. Not nearly as formidable as the original (licensed) TX site near Egypt Valley, but still very listenable. Some work clearly went in to maximizing the signal from the 107.3 site.


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cckadlec
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Re: WLAV Tower Relocation

Post by cckadlec » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:57 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:52 pm
Nope. They definitely are on the 107.3 site still. Crystal clear signal in Ionia County. Listenable signal as far away as west Lansing.
Yeah, I still have Sheboygan K-Love and The Drive in WLAV's null in the same spot I did when they moved to 107.3's site, which clearly would not exist anymore had they moved. Finding a null in their original GR signal was difficult and an Allendale signal would be even more difficult here I'm sure.

Turning off their IBOC was one of the best FM band happenings here in West Michigan in years (where I live anyway) - 96.7 and 97.1 both wide open; even the Three Rivers translator is common up here in Fremont - and then moving further away from me just made it even better, though 107.3 is still a pesky local-as-f*ck signal that's hard to null. I never thought a 38-watter at 94 miles on a local frequency would be "regular."

Cheers to LAV and thank you for all your unfortunate missteps. Though it may sound like a cruel wish, I feel their missteps were (partially) due to corporate decision making gone wrong when they were displaced, so it's hard to feel sorry for them. I hope they stay put.


[ Radio and weather geeks, beware! Coastal tropo studies, the 3-hr. Seoul AM Radio Listening Guide, 6-hr. 500 Top-of-Hour IDs, and Chinese FM at www.chriskadlec.comTuner: Grundig G8 • Location: Fremont, Mich. ]

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MWmetalhead
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Re: WLAV Tower Relocation

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:05 pm

If they do indeed file an app for a new permanent TX site, my gut feeling is that it'll be located in Cannon Township.


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cckadlec
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Re: WLAV Tower Relocation

Post by cckadlec » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:27 pm

I think those along the lakeshore and up to 15-20 miles inland should be prepared for The Drive this spring and summer...

Chicagoland signals are already slamming in on and off in the past week and once mid-May comes when it starts to be more of a daily thing, LAV will likely be an afterthought on 96.9 here on many days. LAV's signal has struggled on the Wisconsin shore as compared to in the past due to this move, though 107.3's coverage is still the same (well, okay, 107.3 Sheboygan took care of that later in the year actually, so poor comparison for 2019...).

At least listeners can't be upset that some translator or LP has blocked them out as is the usual case with reception loss these days. And to speak positively of the station, I do admire their off-format programming with Sunday jazz (which has thrown me off a few times while DXing from afar).


[ Radio and weather geeks, beware! Coastal tropo studies, the 3-hr. Seoul AM Radio Listening Guide, 6-hr. 500 Top-of-Hour IDs, and Chinese FM at www.chriskadlec.comTuner: Grundig G8 • Location: Fremont, Mich. ]

CK-722
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Re: WLAV Tower Relocation

Post by CK-722 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:07 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:05 pm
If they do indeed file an app for a new permanent TX site, my gut feeling is that it'll be located in Cannon Township.
You really can't beat close replication of the 50 kW/500 foot facility. They had a great signal from there. When I lived in Genesee County, I could hear it virtually all the time with the Archer FM-10 Antenna and a Technics Tuner or other receiver or tuner with a narrow first adjacent setting. It was nearly as good as WJFM/WBCT and WOOD-FM/WSRW with Superpower.

WLAV-FM was easily receivable on a Delco car radio in the Lansing East Lansing Area.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

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statmanmi
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Re: WLAV Tower Relocation -- filings today

Post by statmanmi » Thu May 02, 2019 12:26 pm

Well, now we know "the rest of the story".

This morning's filings from Cumulus for both WLAW 97.5 FM and WLAV 96.9 FM advise of their game-plan, with notation that both are contingent on the other being approved.

My layperson read of the documents seem to indicate:
* WLAW's broadcast will move to a tower further northwest, to minimize overlap with the WLAV move.
* WLAV would be permanently on the WGVU-TV tower in Allendale (not that they've ever made it there yet at all).
* Reason for this is to keep Cumulus okay for ownership overlap of 4 FMs in both the Muskegon and Grand Rapids markets.

WLAV filing: http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe ... perseded=X

WLAW filing: http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe ... perseded=X

It's the Radio Market Analysis attachment on each that I could kind of understand the best.

WLAV is intended to be 43kW from 512 feet up the tower.

Cheers! Statmanmi



CK-722
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Re: WLAV Tower Relocation

Post by CK-722 » Thu May 02, 2019 1:47 pm

Here's the most concise view of the APP.

Only 1772 watts at 220 degrees true! At least WFBE has 7834 watts in their null. Keep in mind that there is a wide arc with less than maximum, and given design limitations, the de facto ERP is less than the maximum for nearly all the pattern. I guess I would build out the CP and then keep on pushing to return to near the old site.

https://www.fccdata.org/?facid=&call=WL ... d=&lang=en

It's really too bad that the NIMBY's won't allow a tower to replicate the old facility, and that State owned towers won't share their sites. You'll know a state owned tower by the usually exact 500 foot height on the VFR Aeronautical Map. Come on, sell off a little piece of the property and let them put up their own tower. If it says 499 feet, it's likely private.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

Artificial Intelligence is a Child that needs a Parent to guide it through.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: WLAV Tower Relocation

Post by MWmetalhead » Thu May 02, 2019 7:48 pm

Wow; the 97.5 MHz signal is really going to turn into one big pile of shit. What are they doing; mounting the antenna on a public safety or cellular tower of some kind? The HAAT is only 67 meters! There will be a noticeable decrease in signal strength in Muskegon proper and probably a very big decrease in signal strength in Grand Haven. Why even keep the station on the air?

The GVSU site should work well for WLAV-FM, and I suspect actual RF strength in certain azimuths will overachieve. Will be interesting to see how big of a drop in reception takes place in, say, Ionia, Greenville, and Hastings. The heart of the market should see very good reception from that site. Places such as Grand Haven and Muskegon should see better reception from the Allendale site than from the longtime Egypt Valley site!


Alexis Wiley and Mike Duggan - together following in Hillary's footsteps!

CK-722
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Re: WLAV Tower Relocation

Post by CK-722 » Fri May 03, 2019 1:04 am

Well, let's look at the coverage maps.

WLAV APP

https://www.fccdata.org/?lang=en&facid= ... 803446&i=2

WLAV LIC

https://www.fccdata.org/?lang=en&facid= ... 201829&i=2

WLAW APP

https://www.fccdata.org/?lang=en&facid= ... 803904&i=2

WLAW LIC

https://www.fccdata.org/?lang=en&facid= ... 673810&i=2

WLAW will lose 10 dB of signal to Muskegon, going from about 68 dBu to 58 dBu.

It seems ridiculous that WLAV has to protect a Third Adjacent 600 kHz separated station, and has to have a 6 dB null in that direction AND downgrade WLAW's signal. Make no mistake, 6 kW does not begin to make up for the site and HAAT. And it will allow "squeeze in" upgrades of adjacent channel stations to WLAV to the East, unless they immediately apply for a CP near the old WLAV site after they license the site. WLAV is going to get beat up from WWDV on the Lakeshore, maybe more than from the Greenville COL station STA site. Often, null ERP is even less than the licensed value. And I thought the WFBE relocation was a bad deal, when they could have stayed on the Otisville tower they abandoned, which was essentially 50 kW directional but with very shallow nulls, like 24 kW, at 150 meters. When they tested it, it was blasting in the the Southeast, and likely to the Tri Cities. I guess it didn't come in inside Buick, but that's all gone now.

Any way you cut it, WLAV goes from arguably the third best Commercial signal in the greater area after WBCT and WSRW, to the level of a move in signal from Holland or Greenville.

Hmmm. Wonder where we can squeeze in a new allotment or upgrade if WLAV gives up on maximizing the permanent replacement facility. Please don't say a WCMU-FM satellite. There are too many of those already.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

Artificial Intelligence is a Child that needs a Parent to guide it through.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: WLAV Tower Relocation

Post by MWmetalhead » Fri May 03, 2019 7:11 am

I doubt 97.3 WDEE or 97.3 WMJO could move much if at all; ditto 96.9 Standish, 96.5 DeWitt, 96.5 Portage and 96.7 Albion. That part of the FM dial is very crowded.

It appears under a certain FCC regulation (Section 73.3517?) that the 60 dBu contours of WLAV-FM and WLAW are not permitted to overlap. One wonders why Cumulus just doesn't apply for a waiver for 97.5 WLAW?

Perhaps these recent filings help explain Cumulus' decision to move the Sunny AC format from 97.5 MHz to 92.5 MHz?


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