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I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

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I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

Post by MWmetalhead » Thu May 16, 2024 7:44 am

The proposed $300 million deconstruction of I-375 is not about "restorative justice."

The Black Bottom enclave is long gone. Those who were displaced many decades ago will see zero benefit, monetary or otherwise.

For Duggan, Whitmer and others to even suggest this project is about social justice is laughable and offensive.

What it's actually about is providing development opportunities for wealthy real estate developers to construct hotels and expensive residential condos given close proximity to Ford Field.

Getting into and out of downtown will be a nightmare during construction. This will be an impetus for even more downtown employees to work remotely from home. I envision massive backups on I-75, Woodward and M-10 for Lions games and Ford Field concerts as this construction takes place.

Lafayette Park neighborhood residents will be exposed to grade level traffic noise and perhaps more crime. Those looking to escape traffic backups are likely to cut through the neighborhood. Out of towners are likely to park on residential streets, legal or not.

I-375 should be kept in its current form. The $300 million earmarked for the proposed project would be better spent elsewhere.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 705792007/


Morgan Wallen is a piece of garbage.

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Re: I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

Post by Graham Wellington » Thu May 16, 2024 8:31 am

Agreed. From the beginning this project seemed suspect for what they claimed they wanted to accomplish. A nine or six lane roadway isn't going to create any kind of neighborhood or neighborhood feel. If development is the goal, it seems like that alone could be a selling point. But I guess for a Democrat, touting restorative justice gains them more woke street cred than development. Even if it is bullshit.

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Re: I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

Post by ZenithCKLW » Thu May 16, 2024 8:46 am

I am fine with deconstructing 375 as a freeway as downtown is currently landlocked, but I don't like its proposed replacement. The physical size/width of the current proposal while selling it as more pedestrian-friendly is laughable. Currently, someone crosses the traffic of 375 via overpass. With the proposal, a pedestrian will cross up to 10 lanes (incl. turn lanes) of divided boulevard traffic in a crosswalk (or jaywalk), possibly over the course of two (likely poorly timed) light cycles that will not likely favor pedestrians of Lafayette Blvd or whatever smaller street. How is this more pedestrian-friendly?

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Re: I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

Post by Ben Zonia » Thu May 16, 2024 8:48 am

I remember that years ago, in Chicago, they had long service drives on each side that acted like limited access highways, like an expressway inside a limited access highway. I wonder if that would be an alternative.
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Re: I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

Post by Rate This » Thu May 16, 2024 11:19 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 7:44 am
The proposed $300 million deconstruction of I-375 is not about "restorative justice."

The Black Bottom enclave is long gone. Those who were displaced many decades ago will see zero benefit, monetary or otherwise.

For Duggan, Whitmer and others to even suggest this project is about social justice is laughable and offensive.

What it's actually about is providing development opportunities for wealthy real estate developers to construct hotels and expensive residential condos given close proximity to Ford Field.

Getting into and out of downtown will be a nightmare during construction. This will be an impetus for even more downtown employees to work remotely from home. I envision massive backups on I-75, Woodward and M-10 for Lions games and Ford Field concerts as this construction takes place.

Lafayette Park neighborhood residents will be exposed to grade level traffic noise and perhaps more crime. Those looking to escape traffic backups are likely to cut through the neighborhood. Out of towners are likely to park on residential streets, legal or not.

I-375 should be kept in its current form. The $300 million earmarked for the proposed project would be better spent elsewhere.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 705792007/
Doesn’t most of that neighborhood no longer exist because they…. Ya know… built enough freeways to turn downtown into an island? When you look around down there…. That’s a lot of stuff they simply bulldozed away. And that really goes for all of the freeways radiating out of the city when they are in the depressed portions. Arguably this is one of the things that led to the 1967 riot. I-375 in its current form is a waste of space except on Lions game days. Otherwise it’s so devoid of traffic you could take a nap in the middle of it. That said the boulevard replacement thingy they want to do is just silly.

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Re: I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

Post by Bobbert » Thu May 16, 2024 11:34 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 7:44 am
The proposed $300 million deconstruction of I-375 is not about "restorative justice."

The Black Bottom enclave is long gone. Those who were displaced many decades ago will see zero benefit, monetary or otherwise.

For Duggan, Whitmer and others to even suggest this project is about social justice is laughable and offensive.

What it's actually about is providing development opportunities for wealthy real estate developers to construct hotels and expensive residential condos given close proximity to Ford Field.

Getting into and out of downtown will be a nightmare during construction. This will be an impetus for even more downtown employees to work remotely from home. I envision massive backups on I-75, Woodward and M-10 for Lions games and Ford Field concerts as this construction takes place.

Lafayette Park neighborhood residents will be exposed to grade level traffic noise and perhaps more crime. Those looking to escape traffic backups are likely to cut through the neighborhood. Out of towners are likely to park on residential streets, legal or not.

I-375 should be kept in its current form. The $300 million earmarked for the proposed project would be better spent elsewhere.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 705792007/
This "social justice" smokescreen is similar to what happened with Cobo Hall, where Albert Cobo's allegedly racist policies were used to actually generate name sponsorship revenue for the building. That was proven when the name of the building changed from TCF Center to Huntington Place.

I-375 wasn't the only freeway in this area to disrupt neighborhoods. I guess if you repeat something long enough (I'm looking at you, local media), people will believe it.

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Re: I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

Post by Rate This » Thu May 16, 2024 11:37 am

Bobbert wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 11:34 am
MWmetalhead wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 7:44 am
The proposed $300 million deconstruction of I-375 is not about "restorative justice."

The Black Bottom enclave is long gone. Those who were displaced many decades ago will see zero benefit, monetary or otherwise.

For Duggan, Whitmer and others to even suggest this project is about social justice is laughable and offensive.

What it's actually about is providing development opportunities for wealthy real estate developers to construct hotels and expensive residential condos given close proximity to Ford Field.

Getting into and out of downtown will be a nightmare during construction. This will be an impetus for even more downtown employees to work remotely from home. I envision massive backups on I-75, Woodward and M-10 for Lions games and Ford Field concerts as this construction takes place.

Lafayette Park neighborhood residents will be exposed to grade level traffic noise and perhaps more crime. Those looking to escape traffic backups are likely to cut through the neighborhood. Out of towners are likely to park on residential streets, legal or not.

I-375 should be kept in its current form. The $300 million earmarked for the proposed project would be better spent elsewhere.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 705792007/
This "social justice" smokescreen is similar to what happened with Cobo Hall, where Albert Cobo's allegedly racist policies were used to actually generate name sponsorship revenue for the building. That was proven when the name of the building changed from TCF Center to Huntington Place.

I-375 wasn't the only freeway in this area to disrupt neighborhoods. I guess if you repeat something long enough (I'm looking at you, local media), people will believe it.
The name changed from TCF to Huntington because TCF was purchased by Huntington. It’s the same original agreement and not like they saw a better deal and changed the name.

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Re: I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

Post by Bobbert » Thu May 16, 2024 11:41 am

Rate This wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 11:37 am
Bobbert wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 11:34 am
MWmetalhead wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 7:44 am
The proposed $300 million deconstruction of I-375 is not about "restorative justice."

The Black Bottom enclave is long gone. Those who were displaced many decades ago will see zero benefit, monetary or otherwise.

For Duggan, Whitmer and others to even suggest this project is about social justice is laughable and offensive.

What it's actually about is providing development opportunities for wealthy real estate developers to construct hotels and expensive residential condos given close proximity to Ford Field.

Getting into and out of downtown will be a nightmare during construction. This will be an impetus for even more downtown employees to work remotely from home. I envision massive backups on I-75, Woodward and M-10 for Lions games and Ford Field concerts as this construction takes place.

Lafayette Park neighborhood residents will be exposed to grade level traffic noise and perhaps more crime. Those looking to escape traffic backups are likely to cut through the neighborhood. Out of towners are likely to park on residential streets, legal or not.

I-375 should be kept in its current form. The $300 million earmarked for the proposed project would be better spent elsewhere.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 705792007/
This "social justice" smokescreen is similar to what happened with Cobo Hall, where Albert Cobo's allegedly racist policies were used to actually generate name sponsorship revenue for the building. That was proven when the name of the building changed from TCF Center to Huntington Place.

I-375 wasn't the only freeway in this area to disrupt neighborhoods. I guess if you repeat something long enough (I'm looking at you, local media), people will believe it.
The name changed from TCF to Huntington because TCF was purchased by Huntington. It’s the same original agreement and not like they saw a better deal and changed the name.
You're right, and I stand corrected (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntington_Place#History). I'd still say that money spoke loudest in the original decision.

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Re: I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

Post by Rate This » Thu May 16, 2024 12:24 pm

Bobbert wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 11:41 am
Rate This wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 11:37 am
Bobbert wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 11:34 am
MWmetalhead wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 7:44 am
The proposed $300 million deconstruction of I-375 is not about "restorative justice."

The Black Bottom enclave is long gone. Those who were displaced many decades ago will see zero benefit, monetary or otherwise.

For Duggan, Whitmer and others to even suggest this project is about social justice is laughable and offensive.

What it's actually about is providing development opportunities for wealthy real estate developers to construct hotels and expensive residential condos given close proximity to Ford Field.

Getting into and out of downtown will be a nightmare during construction. This will be an impetus for even more downtown employees to work remotely from home. I envision massive backups on I-75, Woodward and M-10 for Lions games and Ford Field concerts as this construction takes place.

Lafayette Park neighborhood residents will be exposed to grade level traffic noise and perhaps more crime. Those looking to escape traffic backups are likely to cut through the neighborhood. Out of towners are likely to park on residential streets, legal or not.

I-375 should be kept in its current form. The $300 million earmarked for the proposed project would be better spent elsewhere.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 705792007/
This "social justice" smokescreen is similar to what happened with Cobo Hall, where Albert Cobo's allegedly racist policies were used to actually generate name sponsorship revenue for the building. That was proven when the name of the building changed from TCF Center to Huntington Place.

I-375 wasn't the only freeway in this area to disrupt neighborhoods. I guess if you repeat something long enough (I'm looking at you, local media), people will believe it.
The name changed from TCF to Huntington because TCF was purchased by Huntington. It’s the same original agreement and not like they saw a better deal and changed the name.
You're right, and I stand corrected (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntington_Place#History). I'd still say that money spoke loudest in the original decision.
Yes. Personally there would be more upside in erecting a plaque or marker talking about alleged ills if they wanted to be effective in making sure certain things don’t get repeated. Erasing it simply ensures someone could repeat it without knowing it already happened.

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Re: I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

Post by TC Talks » Thu May 16, 2024 3:26 pm

Looking at this map, removing these "Walls" from the city, I think it will fuel growth in 3 directions in a similar way that growth has occurred up Woodward Ave. From what I read, the urban planners are pretty shrewd to accomplish the goals from removing these roads. All the neighborhoods from Downtown to Grosse Pointe should really benefit.

Keep in mind, this plan is for the citizens of Detroit not the suburbs. Traverse City has done some road diet and other changes that pissed off the suburban and crosstown drivers, but has ignited investment in new areas of TC.
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Re: I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

Post by MWmetalhead » Thu May 16, 2024 4:25 pm

There is plenty of empty space among existing buildings in downtown Detroit, especially west of Griswold. The space doesn't always show up in CBD vacancy data because some of the space is not leasable in its current condition.

I will also note proposed construction in District Detroit (LCA's neighborhood) cannot get off the ground due to lack of pre-leasing.

There is no reason to disrupt the Lafayette Park neighborhood.

I would much rather see a reconfiguration of Jefferson downtown to allow for better connectivity between the CBD and the riverfront. Ripping up a good chunk of the concrete monstrosity known as Hart Plaza and backfilling with green space would be a nice start.

Duggan wants to put more hotels near Ford Field; that's what this is primarily about, I suspect. He gets to use state and federal tax monies for his pet project. The city has minimal to no skin in the game.
Morgan Wallen is a piece of garbage.

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Re: I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Thu May 16, 2024 5:04 pm

As dirty as it was to remove Black Bottom, I agree with MW. That neighborhood is unlikely to surge to what it was. This whole projects feels like it is just a platitude to make white people feel better about themselves. Several people of color who live in the city I know have expressed to me that they worry about heavy rush traffic in a newly constructed area. Then, there's also one less outlet for letting fans out of sporting events.

Yes, there are people of color who support it, but I think you would find a 50-50 split at best as to those who want it.
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Re: I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

Post by TC Talks » Thu May 16, 2024 6:28 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 4:25 pm
Duggan wants to put more hotels near Ford Field; that's what this is primarily about, I suspect. He gets to use state and federal tax monies for his pet project. The city has minimal to no skin in the game.
Every project of this magnitude is funded by the feds, they're pulling up an Interstate.

Think about this area 10 years from now. Detroit needs to get rid of the industrial feel, especially downtown.
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Re: I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

Post by Rate This » Thu May 16, 2024 6:34 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 4:25 pm
There is plenty of empty space among existing buildings in downtown Detroit, especially west of Griswold. The space doesn't always show up in CBD vacancy data because some of the space is not leasable in its current condition.

I will also note proposed construction in District Detroit (LCA's neighborhood) cannot get off the ground due to lack of pre-leasing.

There is no reason to disrupt the Lafayette Park neighborhood.

I would much rather see a reconfiguration of Jefferson downtown to allow for better connectivity between the CBD and the riverfront. Ripping up a good chunk of the concrete monstrosity known as Hart Plaza and backfilling with green space would be a nice start.

Duggan wants to put more hotels near Ford Field; that's what this is primarily about, I suspect. He gets to use state and federal tax monies for his pet project. The city has minimal to no skin in the game.
Look at it this way… they are fixing something they never needed. 375 is a worthless piece of road and really always has been. It’s a joke. If it gets turned into a boulevard with two lanes each way that’ll be plenty. They want a monstrosity but that doesn’t match how empty the thing is 99% of the time. Having a moat around downtown is one of the things holding up the neighborhoods from starting to come back in a meaningful way. The freeways in general as constituted enabled all kinds of not so good things, one of which was to turn a lot of the city into flyover country.

Nobody really says this much but “crony capitalism” is a BS term. One of the tenets of capitalism is that you achieve more money and profit by any means necessary. If that means you know a guy who knows a guy who can get it done then more power to you. Fair and ethical are not tenets of capitalism. If the other guy gets bailed out then that means you missed the boat and too damn bad so sad.

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Re: I-375 deconstruction is crony capitalism in action

Post by audiophile » Fri May 17, 2024 7:25 am

Rate This - you often seem to take the big government line on matters. Often government-paid teachers have that attitude too, but I thought you worked in the private sector?

Capitalism has problems, no doubt, but government spending should always be "do no harm". That means to not wasting taxpayers money, or giving it to other businesses in an unfair way.

In other words, government shouldn't be in the business of picking winners and losers.

MEDC is a classic example of crony capitalism.
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