The proposed Ford JV battery plant in Marshall should not receive any state tax credits or incentives

[MWmetalhead]

Aside from the poor average proposed wages, heavy industrial plants such as the one proposed represent potential environmental hazards. I don't know why Whitmer or anyone else would want to give away the proverbial farm to attract this plant.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/busin ... 938154007/

Ford wants Michigan to spend $750 million in taxpayer funds on infrastructure (roads and such) to support their plant? You've gotta be fucking kidding me. They can go screw themselves as far as I'm concerned. Based on proposed wages and salaries, and after taking sales taxes on product sales into account, it would likely take decades upon decades for MI to collect enough income, sales and property taxes to recoup that investment.

Chinese partial ownership aside, the incentives Ford is seeking from the state would be an abominable deal for taxpayers. A total disgrace, if granted.

[audiophile]

Aside from the poor average proposed wages, heavy industrial plants such as the one proposed represent potential environmental hazards. I don't know why Whitmer or anyone else would want to give away the proverbial farm to attract this plant.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/busin ... 938154007/

Ford wants Michigan to spend $750 million in taxpayer funds on infrastructure (roads and such) to support their plant? You've gotta be fucking kidding me. They can go screw themselves as far as I'm concerned. Based on proposed wages and salaries, and after taking sales taxes on product sales into account, it would likely take decades upon decades for MI to collect enough income, sales and property taxes to recoup that investment.

Chinese partial ownership aside, the incentives Ford is seeking from the state would be an abominable deal for taxpayers. A total disgrace, if granted.

Good points.

Whitmer doesn't have a good grasp on running a business, she runs on emotion.

Anything EV - she is going with the emotion of it.

Anything beyond 10-to-15-year payoff is bad move for the taxpayers.

[MWmetalhead]

When counting proposed tax abatements and $210 million already approved from the Michigan Slush - err Strategic - Fund, total taxpayer subsidies would actually top $1.7 billion!!!!

That'd be the equivalent of $680,000 per job created (assuming new jobs even live up to the purported numbers; wouldn't surprise me if actual job creation is significantly less).

This is a truly horrific deal for taxpayers if Ford is given everything it is seeking.

[audiophile]

At $680,000 per job, even if they spent all their income on intrastate products, 6% sales tax and 4.3 % income tax - it takes about $6,800,000 in take-home payroll to recover that...or 100+ years!

[TC Talks]

Aside from the poor average proposed wages, heavy industrial plants such as the one proposed represent potential environmental hazards. I don't know why Whitmer or anyone else would want to give away the proverbial farm to attract this plant.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/busin ... 938154007/

Ford wants Michigan to spend $750 million in taxpayer funds on infrastructure (roads and such) to support their plant? You've gotta be fucking kidding me. They can go screw themselves as far as I'm concerned. Based on proposed wages and salaries, and after taking sales taxes on product sales into account, it would likely take decades upon decades for MI to collect enough income, sales and property taxes to recoup that investment.

Chinese partial ownership aside, the incentives Ford is seeking from the state would be an abominable deal for taxpayers. A total disgrace, if granted.

Good points.

Whitmer doesn't have a good grasp on running a business, she runs on emotion.

Anything EV - she is going with the emotion of it.

Anything beyond 10-to-15-year payoff is bad move for the taxpayers.

So you're not pro business? Got it

[MotorCityRadioFreak]

She’s trying to create an investment corridor. Like it or not, the world is going electric. I have deep concerns, but this is the change we face without any choice. I think this is a boon for the area.

[MWmetalhead]

OK - so why does Ford need $1.7 billion of our tax dollars? Do you think a multi-decade payback period (and that's before time value of money is even considered) is appropriate?

I can see why Marshall would be a lucrative area to place the plant. I-94 provides access to both Metro Detroit and Chicago, and I-69 provides easy access to Louisville. Ford has existing assembly plants in all three areas.

My preference, though, would be for Ford to redevelop an existing brownfield site in southern Michigan.

Tax abatements sometimes make sense for new projects, but the sheer economics of what Ford is requesting here make no sense at all.

I cannot help but think of the Foxconn mess in Wisconsin:
https://www.ft.com/content/7b9b10f0-7b5 ... 76833851ba
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/21/foxconn ... trump.html

[Rate This]

OK - so why does Ford need $1.7 billion of our tax dollars? Do you think a multi-decade payback period (and that's before time value of money is even considered) is appropriate?

I can see why Marshall would be a lucrative area to place the plant. I-94 provides access to both Metro Detroit and Chicago, and I-69 provides easy access to Louisville. Ford has existing assembly plants in all three areas.

My preference, though, would be for Ford to redevelop an existing brownfield site in southern Michigan.

Tax abatements sometimes make sense for new projects, but the sheer economics of what Ford is requesting here make no sense at all.

I cannot help but think of the Foxconn mess in Wisconsin:
https://www.ft.com/content/7b9b10f0-7b5 ... 76833851ba
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/21/foxconn ... trump.html

Because they have to maintain a certain profit level, pay their US workers a lot of money and try to generate goodwill with the public by building a plant here. This is the flaw of a shareholder model. It’s a race to the bottom. They demand more profits so you cut more and more to support the bottom line while hurting your customers and sooner or later reducing your profits. The time will come when a majority of people can’t afford this stuff and major companies start hurting badly. One of the only things propping the whole thing up is government aid to people and businesses. Without that the whole thing collapses. If they had kept things moderately sustainable like they were 50 years ago with a broad middle class this wouldn’t be a discussion and it would have supported itself. But we need more and more profits, screw customers… who needs them?

[TC Talks]

I don't remember the outrage back when Snyder was doing this at a much larger scale...

DETROIT NEWS
Inside Michigan’s $7.3B pitch to Foxconn
Jonathan OostingDetroit News Lansing Bureau
Lansing — As Michigan continues to compete for a Foxconn Technology Group development, a newly released document reveals the state offered the Taiwanese electronics manufacturing giant $7.3 billion in tax breaks, savings and cash incentives for three potential projects.

Michigan lost out on the biggest target, a $10 billion flat-screen panel plant the company chose to locate in Wisconsin. But the offer sheet included two other facilities the state may still be in the running for, including a multibillion-dollar factory that could land in Romulus and a mixed-use, research and development space pitched on behalf of Detroit.

[km1125]

I don't remember the outrage back when Snyder was doing this at a much larger scale...

DETROIT NEWS
Inside Michigan’s $7.3B pitch to Foxconn
Jonathan OostingDetroit News Lansing Bureau
Lansing — As Michigan continues to compete for a Foxconn Technology Group development, a newly released document reveals the state offered the Taiwanese electronics manufacturing giant $7.3 billion in tax breaks, savings and cash incentives for three potential projects.

Michigan lost out on the biggest target, a $10 billion flat-screen panel plant the company chose to locate in Wisconsin. But the offer sheet included two other facilities the state may still be in the running for, including a multibillion-dollar factory that could land in Romulus and a mixed-use, research and development space pitched on behalf of Detroit.

Great point. How's that project doing in Wisconsin? That was quite a while ago... Have they hired any more than 10% of the 13,000 workers that they promised?

[TC Talks]

Foxconn failed to meet the terms of the deal so it fell through.

Indiana is very aggressive and pulls companies away from Michigan all the time. Pence was a master of this kind of thing. It's just a way corporate America gets a good return for their investment in the political process.

[MWmetalhead]

I don't remember the outrage back when Snyder was doing this at a much larger scale...

Snyder's continuation of the crony capitalism policies of his predecessors was a major disappointment to me, and I regularly took him to task for it on this board.

For example, I questioned whether the MEDC (whose board was majority appointed by Snyder) during Synder's tenure gave preferential treatment to NERD Fund contributors.

[MWmetalhead]

Barf x 1000:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 954593007/

The Michigan Senate late Tuesday advanced a $1.3 billion spending bill that earmarked at least half of the new money for luring a Ford Motor Co. battery plant to Calhoun County.

The 22-16 vote came about five hours after the spending bill was revealed in the Senate Appropriations Committee.

[audiophile]

What a waste.

Also, I understand the $180 rebate is dead for this year - and income tax rate SHOULD drop 4.05, if they stop spending like drunken sailors.

[TC Talks]

I was talking to a state level lobbyist about where our pork barrel project is in the pipeline... Things are moving quickly and often not coming out of committee these days. There is such a back log of legislation that was hung up by the GOP that it will likely move this fast for a while.

I'd be happy to update you on the wasteful useless spending the GOP tried to get past Whitmer last session when they were in power, but you all don't seem to be able to understand that is has been going both ways since forever.