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No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

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MotorCityRadioFreak
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No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:11 am

The courts have NOT restored Roe v Wade in Michigan. They have simply allowed a stay on the 1931 law. They are waiting for Prop 3 results. Don’t let the CONS lie to you through misleading ads. Confront the lies!


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Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Rate This » Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:35 am

MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:11 am
The courts have NOT restored Roe v Wade in Michigan. They have simply allowed a stay on the 1931 law. They are waiting for Prop 3 results. Don’t let the CONS lie to you through misleading ads. Confront the lies!
There are several variations of ads running against it. It’s drowning out the pro-prop 3 stuff. There are a few folks around here with signs to vote no on all 3 with a list of reasons for each… all completely nuts.



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Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:39 am

MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:11 am
The courts have NOT restored Roe v Wade in Michigan. They have simply allowed a stay on the 1931 law. They are waiting for Prop 3 results. Don’t let the CONS lie to you through misleading ads. Confront the lies!
They have those Prop 3 signs up all over the place around here. The ones where its like a baby on the front and its like "WhAt?!" I love the one about kids and gender affirming therapies. My wife is totally not into politics and hates the news, but we usually spend some time looking over our ballot and she asked me how that was possible because it made no sense. Its amazing how when you detox from politics and the news, you actually become more clear in how you see the world around you.



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Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by TC Talks » Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:26 am

I haven't seen many No prop 3 signs, except for the one that says that it's too confusing.

Digital media is completely flanked with yes ads. Since I don't watch over the air television I haven't seen much negative advertising.


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km1125
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Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by km1125 » Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:26 am

Neckbeard wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:39 am
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:11 am
The courts have NOT restored Roe v Wade in Michigan. They have simply allowed a stay on the 1931 law. They are waiting for Prop 3 results. Don’t let the CONS lie to you through misleading ads. Confront the lies!
They have those Prop 3 signs up all over the place around here. The ones where its like a baby on the front and its like "WhAt?!" I love the one about kids and gender affirming therapies. My wife is totally not into politics and hates the news, but we usually spend some time looking over our ballot and she asked me how that was possible because it made no sense. Its amazing how when you detox from politics and the news, you actually become more clear in how you see the world around you.
Did you actually read the proposed language?? It says nothing about "women, "moms", or "females", not does it have anything to do with ADULTS making decisions.

It says EVERY INDIVIDUAL (which includes KIDS) have a constitutional right to make ANY DECISION regarding reproductive issues.

Does gender and sterilization have anything to do with reproduction?



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Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Rate This » Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:51 am

km1125 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:26 am
Neckbeard wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:39 am
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:11 am
The courts have NOT restored Roe v Wade in Michigan. They have simply allowed a stay on the 1931 law. They are waiting for Prop 3 results. Don’t let the CONS lie to you through misleading ads. Confront the lies!
They have those Prop 3 signs up all over the place around here. The ones where its like a baby on the front and its like "WhAt?!" I love the one about kids and gender affirming therapies. My wife is totally not into politics and hates the news, but we usually spend some time looking over our ballot and she asked me how that was possible because it made no sense. Its amazing how when you detox from politics and the news, you actually become more clear in how you see the world around you.
Did you actually read the proposed language?? It says nothing about "women, "moms", or "females", not does it have anything to do with ADULTS making decisions.

It says EVERY INDIVIDUAL (which includes KIDS) have a constitutional right to make ANY DECISION regarding reproductive issues.

Does gender and sterilization have anything to do with reproduction?
Why exactly would a kid go try to get sterilized? That doesn’t seem terribly plausible hormones raging and all…



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Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:28 am

km1125 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:26 am
Neckbeard wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:39 am
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:11 am
The courts have NOT restored Roe v Wade in Michigan. They have simply allowed a stay on the 1931 law. They are waiting for Prop 3 results. Don’t let the CONS lie to you through misleading ads. Confront the lies!
They have those Prop 3 signs up all over the place around here. The ones where its like a baby on the front and its like "WhAt?!" I love the one about kids and gender affirming therapies. My wife is totally not into politics and hates the news, but we usually spend some time looking over our ballot and she asked me how that was possible because it made no sense. Its amazing how when you detox from politics and the news, you actually become more clear in how you see the world around you.
Did you actually read the proposed language?? It says nothing about "women, "moms", or "females", not does it have anything to do with ADULTS making decisions.

It says EVERY INDIVIDUAL (which includes KIDS) have a constitutional right to make ANY DECISION regarding reproductive issues.

Does gender and sterilization have anything to do with reproduction?
Lol, look at the dramatic presentation of an argument right here.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politi ... 611266007/
Neckbeard wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:39 am
Its amazing how when you detox from politics and the news, you actually become more clear in how you see the world around you.



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Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by audiophile » Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:59 am

Even an Attorney for Reproductive Freedom for All — the group behind the proposed constitutional amendment said his reading and I quote:

"cast doubt on opponents' assertions that Proposal 3 would affect gender-affirming care."

So even an attorney for it ONLY said it cast doubt. That a tacit admission it written unclear manner, and that with the right judge it might change. He knows he better not argue it too strong because when he might need to argue later that in fact does, hence the "cast doubt" response.

Look how Elliot-Larsen Civil Rights Act was twisted by the Michigan Supreme Court to include transgender, even though the author of the bill is on record that did not cover that matter, and he also said if it included that language, that it would never that passed, a number of years ago. Legislation from the bench at its finest.


In the Freep article no one is bothering to argue it completely strips parental right for abortion, or the definition of a medical professional is very sloppy and would allow a nurse to do abortions.

As BMW said, Proposal 3 should have been one sentence. " A woman has a right to an abortion until fetal viability."

What we got instead is a frigging mess.


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

km1125
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Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by km1125 » Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:06 pm

Rate This wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:51 am
km1125 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:26 am
Neckbeard wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:39 am
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:11 am
The courts have NOT restored Roe v Wade in Michigan. They have simply allowed a stay on the 1931 law. They are waiting for Prop 3 results. Don’t let the CONS lie to you through misleading ads. Confront the lies!
They have those Prop 3 signs up all over the place around here. The ones where its like a baby on the front and its like "WhAt?!" I love the one about kids and gender affirming therapies. My wife is totally not into politics and hates the news, but we usually spend some time looking over our ballot and she asked me how that was possible because it made no sense. Its amazing how when you detox from politics and the news, you actually become more clear in how you see the world around you.
Did you actually read the proposed language?? It says nothing about "women, "moms", or "females", not does it have anything to do with ADULTS making decisions.

It says EVERY INDIVIDUAL (which includes KIDS) have a constitutional right to make ANY DECISION regarding reproductive issues.

Does gender and sterilization have anything to do with reproduction?
Why exactly would a kid go try to get sterilized? That doesn’t seem terribly plausible hormones raging and all…
Why do kids eat Tide Pods?



Deleted User 9015

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:26 pm

audiophile wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:59 am
Even an Attorney for Reproductive Freedom for All — the group behind the proposed constitutional amendment said his reading and I quote:

"cast doubt on opponents' assertions that Proposal 3 would affect gender-affirming care."

So even an attorney for it ONLY said it cast doubt. That a tacit admission it written unclear manner, and that with the right judge it might change. He knows he better not argue it too strong because when he might need to argue later that in fact does, hence the "cast doubt" response.
If that's the best you got, you got nothing in response, my man. Your interpretation of a tacit admission is bizarre, especially since that is just how some people talk.

For those who are not straining to find any space to argue on:
If Michigan voters adopt Proposal 3, a future court could, in theory, hear a legal challenge from a minor seeking gender-affirming care without their parents' consent.

In such a case, courts also interpret the amendment's text. That could boil down to two questions: Does the right to reproductive freedom protected by the amendment include gender-affirming treatments and procedures? If so, would the constitutional amendment bar parental consent requirements for minors seeking care?

Independent legal and medical experts answered no to both.

A court would consider what the amendment's drafters intended when they wrote it. Because those backing the amendment have denied that it has anything to do with gender-affirming care, it's unlikely courts will interpret it that way, according to Catherine Archibald, a University of Detroit Mercy law professor who specializes in LGBT legal issues and gender law.
Mae Kuykendall, a Michigan State University law professor who specializes in constitutional law, said in an email that the amendment "clearly confines the idea of sterilization to a concern about pregnancy." Transgender care doesn't fit the bill, she said.
audiophile wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:59 am
As BMW said, Proposal 3 should have been one sentence. " A woman has a right to an abortion until fetal viability."

What we got instead is a frigging mess.
What if someone recognized by the state, particularly on their State ID, or who even identifies as a man, non-binary, etc. wants to have an abortion? What standard is used for "fetal viability"?

I love how the response of conservatives to a "frigging mess" is an even bigger "frigging mess".



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Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by audiophile » Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:30 pm

Well, if that the best you got - then YOU have nothing either.

EXPLAIN HOW ELLIOT LARSEN GOT EXPANDED TO COVER GENDER INDENTITY?

You are also silent on parental rights being erased for pregnancy termination by a minor.


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

Deleted User 9015

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:45 pm

audiophile wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:30 pm
Well, if that the best you got - then YOU have nothing either.

EXPLAIN HOW ELLIOT LARSEN GOT EXPANDED TO COVER GENDER INDENTITY?

You are also silent on parental rights being erased for pregnancy termination by a minor.
Because these are beyond the scope of what we are talking about. We were talking about HRT for kids. I realize that since you were proven wrong here and now you want to expand into areas where you are more comfortable, but like buying off your kid's virginity with a BRAND NEW CAR!, it just doesn't work the way you and your circlejerk have convinced yourselves.



km1125
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Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by km1125 » Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:58 pm

Neckbeard wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:28 am
Lol, look at the dramatic presentation of an argument right here.
The presentation of "an argument" that's written wholly by the proponents of the proposition??

Clearly unbiased!! :rollin SMDH!



Deleted User 9015

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:23 pm

km1125 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:58 pm
Neckbeard wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:28 am
Lol, look at the dramatic presentation of an argument right here.
The presentation of "an argument" that's written wholly by the proponents of the proposition??

Clearly unbiased!! :rollin SMDH!
Uhhh I was referring to you, my man.
Did you actually read the proposed language?? It says nothing about "women, "moms", or "females", not does it have anything to do with ADULTS making decisions.

It says EVERY INDIVIDUAL (which includes KIDS) have a constitutional right to make ANY DECISION regarding reproductive issues.

Does gender and sterilization have anything to do with reproduction?
Multiple question marks, tons of quotes, a bunch of caps, your post just looks dramatic before even reading the content and its amusing.

As for the inclusion of gender or genetic sex terminology into the wording, that would make it an even bigger mess. The state recognizes that people assigned one gender can have their marker on their license changed. That is just a fact. As for the recognition of whether or not age should hold a role in the decision, I believe that is a very reasonable thing to have included in the proposition and that it is a drawback of the proposition, which is why I do not laugh about that. Nor do I laugh about there being a lack of qualification requirements. Those are real concerns, but as for the issue of gender identity and Prop 3, its clear that people are using that to manipulate and I find it sad that people old enough to be my father are so easily hornswoggled.



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Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:43 pm

Rate This wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:51 am
km1125 wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:26 am
Neckbeard wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:39 am
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:11 am
The courts have NOT restored Roe v Wade in Michigan. They have simply allowed a stay on the 1931 law. They are waiting for Prop 3 results. Don’t let the CONS lie to you through misleading ads. Confront the lies!
They have those Prop 3 signs up all over the place around here. The ones where its like a baby on the front and its like "WhAt?!" I love the one about kids and gender affirming therapies. My wife is totally not into politics and hates the news, but we usually spend some time looking over our ballot and she asked me how that was possible because it made no sense. Its amazing how when you detox from politics and the news, you actually become more clear in how you see the world around you.
Did you actually read the proposed language?? It says nothing about "women, "moms", or "females", not does it have anything to do with ADULTS making decisions.

It says EVERY INDIVIDUAL (which includes KIDS) have a constitutional right to make ANY DECISION regarding reproductive issues.

Does gender and sterilization have anything to do with reproduction?
Why exactly would a kid go try to get sterilized? That doesn’t seem terribly plausible hormones raging and all…
They don’t want trans teens to get puberty blockers even though puberty blockers drastically reduce suicide. They are literally stop signs until said child reaches adult age and can then transition fully.


They/them, non-binary and proud.

Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.

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