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Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

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MotorCityRadioFreak
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Re: Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:36 pm

Circle Seven wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:42 am
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 11:21 pm
While not the biggest fan of Proposal 3 due to the open ended nature of it, the alternative is far too costly. The 1931 law needs to be struck down once and for all. We don’t need pro choice women prosecuted.
I respectfully disagree with this line of thinking. This is like buying a house that's falling apart just because you like new garage they built.
That's a good analogy of Prop 3. Nothing wrong with the headline. A woman's right to have an abortion.

But every TV spot opposing Prop 3 is correct. The ads I see are not talking about being opposed to abortion. They're talking about the unexpected consequences because Prop 3's language is sloppier than a St. Bernard's kiss.

Rest assure that if Prop 3 did get turned down, another version would be on the ballot in six months. Just like a millage. Just keep putting it up for a vote until it finally passes.

I say turn this one down. Let them get the message. Come back with a proposal the simply says every woman can have an abortion. K.I.S.S.

Like someone said earlier in this thread, there are lawyers itching to go to court to be the first to argue a guy don't have to pay child support if he wanted an abortion and she didn't. Does it not say everyone involved in the pregnancy has a say? Talk about a sloppy interpretation.
So, I am supposed to worry about lawsuits? Look, lawyers are more popular than ever with conflicts anyways. Anything worthwhile has to be fought for. Any of these ballot measures are either going to be fought in court or the legislature. Hell, the people voted against the emergency manager law, yet the legislature forced it through anyways.


They/them, non-binary and proud.

Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.

Circle Seven
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Re: Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

Post by Circle Seven » Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:52 pm

MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:36 pm
So, I am supposed to worry about lawsuits? Look, lawyers are more popular than ever with conflicts anyways. Anything worthwhile has to be fought for. Any of these ballot measures are either going to be fought in court or the legislature. Hell, the people voted against the emergency manager law, yet the legislature forced it through anyways.
Read the last sentence of your post. The vote of the people isn't worth the paper the ballot is printed on. You are re-affirming what I'm saying.



MotorCityRadioFreak
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Re: Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:56 pm

Circle Seven wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:52 pm
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:36 pm
So, I am supposed to worry about lawsuits? Look, lawyers are more popular than ever with conflicts anyways. Anything worthwhile has to be fought for. Any of these ballot measures are either going to be fought in court or the legislature. Hell, the people voted against the emergency manager law, yet the legislature forced it through anyways.
Read the last sentence of your post. The vote of the people isn't worth the paper the ballot is printed on. You are re-affirming what I'm saying.
It still forces the issue and protects it in the short term.


They/them, non-binary and proud.

Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.

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Rate This
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Re: Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

Post by Rate This » Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:50 pm

Circle Seven wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:52 pm
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:36 pm
So, I am supposed to worry about lawsuits? Look, lawyers are more popular than ever with conflicts anyways. Anything worthwhile has to be fought for. Any of these ballot measures are either going to be fought in court or the legislature. Hell, the people voted against the emergency manager law, yet the legislature forced it through anyways.
Read the last sentence of your post. The vote of the people isn't worth the paper the ballot is printed on. You are re-affirming what I'm saying.
The legislature overriding the people’s will is wrong. Just like the wage amendment that got overridden a few years ago. If the people vote it in then that should be it.



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Bryce
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Re: Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

Post by Bryce » Mon Oct 24, 2022 12:20 pm

dchildress wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:55 pm
This has nothing to do with “reproductive freedom.”

People are already free to reproduce as much as they want.

China does not have reproductive freedom. They have the opposite.
This is a perfect example of the lefts uncanny ability to twist meanings and rebrand words to attempt to push a narrative and put perfume on a pig.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

km1125
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Re: Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

Post by km1125 » Mon Oct 24, 2022 12:26 pm

Rate This wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:50 pm
The legislature overriding the people’s will is wrong. Just like the wage amendment that got overridden a few years ago. If the people vote it in then that should be it.
I'd agree if "the people" actually knew what they were voting on.



km1125
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Re: Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

Post by km1125 » Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:19 pm

Had another thought about this after just having another discussion about how "parental rights" are effectively terminated if this proposal passes (Oh, and how are Karen McDonald and Kim Worthy able to flat-out LIE in advertisements about that aspect of this proposal???).

If you read "Every individual has a fundamental right to reproductive freedom, which entails the right to make and effectuate decisions about all matters relating to pregnancy..." and " An individual's right to reproductive freedom shall not be denied, burdened, nor infringed upon" and "The state shall not penalize, prosecute, or otherwise take adverse action against an individual based on their actual, potential, perceived, or alleged pregnancy outcomes..."

What if a 35 year old guy convinces a 15 year old girl to have sex and have a baby? Is he now FULLY protected against prosecution for anything if she AGREED to it to exercise HER "right to reproductive freedom"??



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Rate This
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Re: Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

Post by Rate This » Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:49 pm

km1125 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:19 pm
Had another thought about this after just having another discussion about how "parental rights" are effectively terminated if this proposal passes (Oh, and how are Karen McDonald and Kim Worthy able to flat-out LIE in advertisements about that aspect of this proposal???).

If you read "Every individual has a fundamental right to reproductive freedom, which entails the right to make and effectuate decisions about all matters relating to pregnancy..." and " An individual's right to reproductive freedom shall not be denied, burdened, nor infringed upon" and "The state shall not penalize, prosecute, or otherwise take adverse action against an individual based on their actual, potential, perceived, or alleged pregnancy outcomes..."

What if a 35 year old guy convinces a 15 year old girl to have sex and have a baby? Is he now FULLY protected against prosecution for anything if she AGREED to it to exercise HER "right to reproductive freedom"??
I would imagine the statutes against under age sex bar consent and he would be gotten that way.



km1125
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Re: Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

Post by km1125 » Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:06 pm

Rate This wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:49 pm
km1125 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:19 pm
Had another thought about this after just having another discussion about how "parental rights" are effectively terminated if this proposal passes (Oh, and how are Karen McDonald and Kim Worthy able to flat-out LIE in advertisements about that aspect of this proposal???).

If you read "Every individual has a fundamental right to reproductive freedom, which entails the right to make and effectuate decisions about all matters relating to pregnancy..." and " An individual's right to reproductive freedom shall not be denied, burdened, nor infringed upon" and "The state shall not penalize, prosecute, or otherwise take adverse action against an individual based on their actual, potential, perceived, or alleged pregnancy outcomes..."

What if a 35 year old guy convinces a 15 year old girl to have sex and have a baby? Is he now FULLY protected against prosecution for anything if she AGREED to it to exercise HER "right to reproductive freedom"??
I would imagine the statutes against under age sex bar consent and he would be gotten that way.
"The state shall not penalize, prosecute, or otherwise take adverse action against an individual based on their actual, potential, perceived, or alleged pregnancy outcomes..."



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Rate This
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Re: Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

Post by Rate This » Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:20 pm

km1125 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:06 pm
Rate This wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:49 pm
km1125 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:19 pm
Had another thought about this after just having another discussion about how "parental rights" are effectively terminated if this proposal passes (Oh, and how are Karen McDonald and Kim Worthy able to flat-out LIE in advertisements about that aspect of this proposal???).

If you read "Every individual has a fundamental right to reproductive freedom, which entails the right to make and effectuate decisions about all matters relating to pregnancy..." and " An individual's right to reproductive freedom shall not be denied, burdened, nor infringed upon" and "The state shall not penalize, prosecute, or otherwise take adverse action against an individual based on their actual, potential, perceived, or alleged pregnancy outcomes..."

What if a 35 year old guy convinces a 15 year old girl to have sex and have a baby? Is he now FULLY protected against prosecution for anything if she AGREED to it to exercise HER "right to reproductive freedom"??
I would imagine the statutes against under age sex bar consent and he would be gotten that way.
"The state shall not penalize, prosecute, or otherwise take adverse action against an individual based on their actual, potential, perceived, or alleged pregnancy outcomes..."
It wouldn’t prosecute her either. But the guy won’t be getting pregnant so how can he have pregnancy outcomes?



km1125
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Re: Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

Post by km1125 » Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:13 am

Rate This wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:20 pm
km1125 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:06 pm
Rate This wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:49 pm
km1125 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:19 pm
Had another thought about this after just having another discussion about how "parental rights" are effectively terminated if this proposal passes (Oh, and how are Karen McDonald and Kim Worthy able to flat-out LIE in advertisements about that aspect of this proposal???).

If you read "Every individual has a fundamental right to reproductive freedom, which entails the right to make and effectuate decisions about all matters relating to pregnancy..." and " An individual's right to reproductive freedom shall not be denied, burdened, nor infringed upon" and "The state shall not penalize, prosecute, or otherwise take adverse action against an individual based on their actual, potential, perceived, or alleged pregnancy outcomes..."

What if a 35 year old guy convinces a 15 year old girl to have sex and have a baby? Is he now FULLY protected against prosecution for anything if she AGREED to it to exercise HER "right to reproductive freedom"??
I would imagine the statutes against under age sex bar consent and he would be gotten that way.
"The state shall not penalize, prosecute, or otherwise take adverse action against an individual based on their actual, potential, perceived, or alleged pregnancy outcomes..."
It wouldn’t prosecute her either. But the guy won’t be getting pregnant so how can he have pregnancy outcomes?
Prop 3 doesn't limit the protection to "her", a woman, or a female. It says every individual had the right to reproductive freedom. It also says it's not just about pregnancy.



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Rate This
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Re: Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

Post by Rate This » Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:09 am

km1125 wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:13 am
Rate This wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:20 pm
km1125 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:06 pm
Rate This wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:49 pm
km1125 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:19 pm
Had another thought about this after just having another discussion about how "parental rights" are effectively terminated if this proposal passes (Oh, and how are Karen McDonald and Kim Worthy able to flat-out LIE in advertisements about that aspect of this proposal???).

If you read "Every individual has a fundamental right to reproductive freedom, which entails the right to make and effectuate decisions about all matters relating to pregnancy..." and " An individual's right to reproductive freedom shall not be denied, burdened, nor infringed upon" and "The state shall not penalize, prosecute, or otherwise take adverse action against an individual based on their actual, potential, perceived, or alleged pregnancy outcomes..."

What if a 35 year old guy convinces a 15 year old girl to have sex and have a baby? Is he now FULLY protected against prosecution for anything if she AGREED to it to exercise HER "right to reproductive freedom"??
I would imagine the statutes against under age sex bar consent and he would be gotten that way.
"The state shall not penalize, prosecute, or otherwise take adverse action against an individual based on their actual, potential, perceived, or alleged pregnancy outcomes..."
It wouldn’t prosecute her either. But the guy won’t be getting pregnant so how can he have pregnancy outcomes?
Prop 3 doesn't limit the protection to "her", a woman, or a female. It says every individual had the right to reproductive freedom. It also says it's not just about pregnancy.
What you quoted and I then quoted refers to “an individual” and “their pregnancy outcomes”… so how can a man have a pregnancy outcome?



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ZenithCKLW
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Re: Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

Post by ZenithCKLW » Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:25 am

Men who are suddenly concerned and complaining about the ramifications of this proposal about their rights around pregnancy is rich.



km1125
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Re: Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

Post by km1125 » Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:08 am

Rate This wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:09 am
km1125 wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:13 am
Rate This wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:20 pm
km1125 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:06 pm
Rate This wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:49 pm
km1125 wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:19 pm
Had another thought about this after just having another discussion about how "parental rights" are effectively terminated if this proposal passes (Oh, and how are Karen McDonald and Kim Worthy able to flat-out LIE in advertisements about that aspect of this proposal???).

If you read "Every individual has a fundamental right to reproductive freedom, which entails the right to make and effectuate decisions about all matters relating to pregnancy..." and " An individual's right to reproductive freedom shall not be denied, burdened, nor infringed upon" and "The state shall not penalize, prosecute, or otherwise take adverse action against an individual based on their actual, potential, perceived, or alleged pregnancy outcomes..."

What if a 35 year old guy convinces a 15 year old girl to have sex and have a baby? Is he now FULLY protected against prosecution for anything if she AGREED to it to exercise HER "right to reproductive freedom"??
I would imagine the statutes against under age sex bar consent and he would be gotten that way.
"The state shall not penalize, prosecute, or otherwise take adverse action against an individual based on their actual, potential, perceived, or alleged pregnancy outcomes..."
It wouldn’t prosecute her either. But the guy won’t be getting pregnant so how can he have pregnancy outcomes?
Prop 3 doesn't limit the protection to "her", a woman, or a female. It says every individual had the right to reproductive freedom. It also says it's not just about pregnancy.
What you quoted and I then quoted refers to “an individual” and “their pregnancy outcomes”… so how can a man have a pregnancy outcome?
It does not say their pregnancy outcome, it says "about all matters relating to pregnancy". So a man getting a woman pregnant DOES HAVE RIGHTS according to this proposal, because it says it right in the text. The text DOES NOT limit the granted rights to a person who is carrying a baby, a woman, or a female.

EVERY INDIVIDUAL gets rights related to "reproductive freedom" and to "ALL MATTERS related to pregnancy".



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Re: Does the "Reproductive Freedom" amendment give rights to men?

Post by stopnswop2 » Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:10 pm

dchildress wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:11 am
"Does the 'reproductive freedom' amendment give rights to men?"

Sure! As long as the woman identifies as a man.
You identify as every gender


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