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Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

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Re: Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

Post by craig11152 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:42 am

It does seem to me if Rick Snyder is to be held responsible for the Flint water fiasco then Gretchen Whitmer should be held responsible for the covid/nursing home fiasco.


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Re: Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

Post by Rate This » Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:43 am

craig11152 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:42 am
It does seem to me if Rick Snyder is to be held responsible for the Flint water fiasco then Gretchen Whitmer should be held responsible for the covid/nursing home fiasco.
The question is what to charge her with in the fiasco if anything.



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Re: Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

Post by km1125 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:21 am

craig11152 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:42 am
It does seem to me if Rick Snyder is to be held responsible for the Flint water fiasco then Gretchen Whitmer should be held responsible for the covid/nursing home fiasco.
The difference is that Snyder could be charged with dereliction or not taking some kind of preventative action (although not much was known at the time) vs Whitmer making specific orders and taking actions to have sick folks stuck in with the most vulnerable, putting them at grave risk. One is "well, you probably could have done more and that *might* have prevented *some* people from getting sick" and one is "what you did ended up in people dying"



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Re: Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

Post by craig11152 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:09 am

Rate This wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:43 am
craig11152 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:42 am
It does seem to me if Rick Snyder is to be held responsible for the Flint water fiasco then Gretchen Whitmer should be held responsible for the covid/nursing home fiasco.
The question is what to charge her with in the fiasco if anything.
according to Wikipedia...
In January 2021, Michigan Governor Rick Snyder and eight other officials were charged with 34 felony counts and seven misdemeanors—41 counts in all—for their role in the crisis.[26] Two officials were charged with involuntary manslaughter.[27]
If the Michigan AG could find 41 counts for Flint because Government officials made choices with bad outcomes I'm sure something in those 41 counts would apply to the nursing home disaster.
I would also argue that the choices Whitmer made with respect to nursing homes had a much more predictable outcome than the Flint water choices. The data was piling up that Covid was killing older people and she ignored it or disregarded it with excuses that there were no other options.


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Re: Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

Post by km1125 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:25 am

craig11152 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:09 am
...
I would also argue that the choices Whitmer made with respect to nursing homes had a much more predictable outcome than the Flint water choices.
...
You are 100% correct in that. We have NO IDEA even IF the issues in Flint have had actual effects on any of those folks, or even if any effects had ANY permanent implications. Only previous studies that "it could".



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Re: Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

Post by bmw » Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:16 pm

craig11152 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:09 am
The data was piling up that Covid was killing older people and she ignored it or disregarded it with excuses that there were no other options.
It was worse than that. The Republican legislature put forth a different option. And she VETOED it. This back in late July:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 558640002/
Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer vetoed Friday a bill from the GOP-controlled Legislature that would have shifted elderly people with COVID-19 away from nursing homes and into entirely separate facilities.

The bill was a direct challenge to the Whitmer administration's current handling of nursing homes during the COVID-19 pandemic, which has focused on caring for those with the virus in isolated spaces of existing homes.

In a letter explaining her veto, the Democratic governor said the bill, sponsored by Sen. Peter Lucido, R-Shelby Township, was based on "the false premise that isolation units created within existing facilities are somehow insufficient to protect seniors."
(emphasis added).

So apparently Whitmer's position at the time was that it was perfectly safe to keep Covid-positive elderly people in the same facility as other elderly people.

Personally, I think she vetoed the bill for no reason other than she was involved in a pissing match with the Republican-controlled state legislature. They tried to revoke her emergency powers and she took it personally, choosing to give them the finger on everything from there on out - even if it meant more elderly people dying.
Last edited by bmw on Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

Post by Rate This » Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:19 pm

bmw wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:16 pm
craig11152 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:09 am
The data was piling up that Covid was killing older people and she ignored it or disregarded it with excuses that there were no other options.
It was worse than that. The Republican legislature put forth a different option. And she VETOED it. This back in late July:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 558640002/
Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer vetoed Friday a bill from the GOP-controlled Legislature that would have shifted elderly people with COVID-19 away from nursing homes and into entirely separate facilities.

The bill was a direct challenge to the Whitmer administration's current handling of nursing homes during the COVID-19 pandemic, which has focused on caring for those with the virus in isolated spaces of existing homes.

In a letter explaining her veto, the Democratic governor said the bill, sponsored by Sen. Peter Lucido, R-Shelby Township, was based on "the false premise that isolation units created within existing facilities are somehow insufficient to protect seniors."
So apparently Whitmer's position at the time was that it was perfectly safe to keep Covid-positive elderly people in the same facility as other elderly people.

Personally, I think she vetoed the bill for no reason other than she was involved in a pissing match with the Republican-controlled state legislature. They tried to revoke her emergency powers and she took it personally, choosing to give them the finger on everything from there on out - even if it meant more elderly people dying.
Lucido out for revenge... that narrative writes itself whether it’s true or not.



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Re: Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

Post by bmw » Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:24 pm

Can we just bask for a minute in the stupidity that was Whitmer's excuse for vetoing the July bill? This woman claimed that not only was it perfectly safe for the elderly to have Covid-positive patients living in the same facility as them, but further argued that any suggestion otherwise was based on a "false premise."

This is who we have running our state?



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Re: Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

Post by Rate This » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:56 am

bmw wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:24 pm
Can we just bask for a minute in the stupidity that was Whitmer's excuse for vetoing the July bill? This woman claimed that not only was it perfectly safe for the elderly to have Covid-positive patients living in the same facility as them, but further argued that any suggestion otherwise was based on a "false premise."

This is who we have running our state?
Exhibit A on today’s episode of quotes that don’t age well...



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Re: Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

Post by TC Talks » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:47 am

bmw wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:24 pm
Can we just bask for a minute in the stupidity that was Whitmer's excuse for vetoing the July bill? This woman claimed that not only was it perfectly safe for the elderly to have Covid-positive patients living in the same facility as them, but further argued that any suggestion otherwise was based on a "false premise."

This is who we have running our state?
I will note that officials within the Trump administration were saying the same thing and BMW will likely ignore this fact. Those RECOVERING from COVID are safe to reside in a sealed wing of a facility. I believe that is more accurate to what was said.


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Re: Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

Post by Deleted User 14896 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:22 am

TC Talks wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:47 am
I will note that officials within the Trump administration were saying the same thing and BMW will likely ignore this fact. Those RECOVERING from COVID are safe to reside in a sealed wing of a facility. I believe that is more accurate to what was said.
Keep it on topic, Lovinlife.
Michigan and Whitmer.



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Re: Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

Post by TC Talks » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:12 am

Mike Oxlong wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:22 am
TC Talks wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:47 am
I will note that officials within the Trump administration were saying the same thing and BMW will likely ignore this fact. Those RECOVERING from COVID are safe to reside in a sealed wing of a facility. I believe that is more accurate to what was said.
Keep it on topic, Lovinlife.
Michigan and Whitmer.
The relationship is very simple, governors get their advice on issues like covid from the Federal departments. In this case the federal government was mandating that covid recovery occur in federally funded Medicare nursing facilities. anything Whitmer did was an extension of a policy created by the Trump administration so it is very relevant to this conversation.

You guys are Monday morning quarterbacking this a bit. Nobody knew much about covid in July or earlier other than it was killing people. Much of the advice we were handed locally came from NIH or CDC.


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Re: Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

Post by Rate This » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:33 am

TC Talks wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:12 am
Mike Oxlong wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:22 am
TC Talks wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:47 am
I will note that officials within the Trump administration were saying the same thing and BMW will likely ignore this fact. Those RECOVERING from COVID are safe to reside in a sealed wing of a facility. I believe that is more accurate to what was said.
Keep it on topic, Lovinlife.
Michigan and Whitmer.
The relationship is very simple, governors get their advice on issues like covid from the Federal departments. In this case the federal government was mandating that covid recovery occur in federally funded Medicare nursing facilities. anything Whitmer did was an extension of a policy created by the Trump administration so it is very relevant to this conversation.

You guys are Monday morning quarterbacking this a bit. Nobody knew much about covid in July or earlier other than it was killing people. Much of the advice we were handed locally came from NIH or CDC.
I can give Leeway till about April 15th. Beyond that they were just fucking it up.



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Re: Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

Post by TC Talks » Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:50 am

I'll bite, DHHS knew better in June. But where do those recovering from COVID (not contagious) receive OT and PT? Many have weeks of work before to returning home.

These facilities have always provided this service to Medicaid/Medicare recipients.

Where do they recover? Not providing these services is irresponsible.


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Re: Dana "Dereliction of Duty" Nessel won't investigate Whitmer

Post by km1125 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:17 pm

Seems like we had built SEVERAL temporary facilities. Why didn't we use those AT ALL???



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