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Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

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MotorCityRadioFreak
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Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:04 pm

First, the timing of this is horrendous. Not only are the risks due to COVID considerable, but we have a crisis of alcoholism since the start of the pandemic. I guess if you can’t handle the pandemic, it’s better to be sauced during the end of it.

https://www.wxyz.com/rebound/bill-would ... _EllNQCuYk


My mom taught me an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It's too bad Repubes don't believe in prevention for COVID, but they can deny someone water waiting in a line to vote.

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Re: Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

Post by Rate This » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:31 am

MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:04 pm
First, the timing of this is horrendous. Not only are the risks due to COVID considerable, but we have a crisis of alcoholism since the start of the pandemic. I guess if you can’t handle the pandemic, it’s better to be sauced during the end of it.

https://www.wxyz.com/rebound/bill-would ... _EllNQCuYk
An extra couple hours isn’t gonna hurt much more than 2am already does and it would be on a municipality by municipality basis.



Matt
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Re: Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

Post by Matt » Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:31 am

MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:04 pm
First, the timing of this is horrendous. Not only are the risks due to COVID considerable, but we have a crisis of alcoholism since the start of the pandemic. I guess if you can’t handle the pandemic, it’s better to be sauced during the end of it.

https://www.wxyz.com/rebound/bill-would ... _EllNQCuYk
You really hate freedom and the ability for people to make choices for themselves, don't you? Where is your outrage over the idiotic governor killing people in nursing homes?



zzand
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Re: Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

Post by zzand » Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:33 am

The bars being open again in my state have not contributed to an increase in cases. The state has kept a damn close eye on it. Matter of fact our daily case rate is dropping nicely and people are eating out, going to sports bars and doing just fine. It is all about personal responsibility. I don't want the government, state or Federal telling what will make me safe, I am quite capable of reading the available data and deciding what will work best for me.



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bmw
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Re: Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

Post by bmw » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:38 am

I am absolutely opposed to this particular measure.

4 AM is too late to be serving alcohol. If you make it a municipality by municipality basis, places that decide to open until 4 AM will have the competitive advantage, so people who want to go out drinking late who also live in an area not allowed to serve until 4 will travel, maybe starting out the night by traveling, thereby hurting bars in areas where it is not allowed.

The side effect of this will be not only bars in areas not allowing this being hurt by lack of business, but also the effect of putting more drunks out on the road at 4 AM, some of whom now have longer distances to drive back home. Having drunks on the road as late as 4:30 or 4:45 AM will then have an impact on the super early morning commute (ie, people traveling for 5 AM).

Nope - not in support of it.



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Re: Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

Post by Rate This » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:35 am

bmw wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:38 am
I am absolutely opposed to this particular measure.

4 AM is too late to be serving alcohol. If you make it a municipality by municipality basis, places that decide to open until 4 AM will have the competitive advantage, so people who want to go out drinking late who also live in an area not allowed to serve until 4 will travel, maybe starting out the night by traveling, thereby hurting bars in areas where it is not allowed.

The side effect of this will be not only bars in areas not allowing this being hurt by lack of business, but also the effect of putting more drunks out on the road at 4 AM, some of whom now have longer distances to drive back home. Having drunks on the road as late as 4:30 or 4:45 AM will then have an impact on the super early morning commute (ie, people traveling for 5 AM).

Nope - not in support of it.
Aren’t you a free market guy?



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bmw
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Re: Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

Post by bmw » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:55 am

Rate This wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:35 am
Aren’t you a free market guy?
You've been a bit snarky lately. I would ask you to explain what you're getting at here, but I'll just go ahead and explain my position instead:

The central question here is whether driving is a necessity in modern society. I know others here have argued that it isn't during past discussions of things like speed limits, but I believe it is. As such, when I get in a vehicle and hit the public roads, I have the expectation that the government has taken reasonable steps to ensure that I will be protected from harm by others. While drunk driving in and of itself is a punishable crime (sure, you could argue that drunk drivers should just be charged and prosecuted appropriately and that it isn't fair to others who otherwise wold obey the law), the reality is that allowing bars to be open until 4 AM will increase the number of drunk drivers on the road during the early morning commute, hence, making it more dangerous for people to drive to work at that hour. It is also a fact that there are more people on the road at 4:30 AM than there are at 2:30 AM. As such, in weighing a balancing test of one's right to get wasted at 4 AM against one's right to drive to work in the morning on safe roads, I would suggest that the balance falls on the side of keeping the roads safe.



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Re: Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

Post by Rate This » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:21 pm

bmw wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:55 am
Rate This wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:35 am
Aren’t you a free market guy?
You've been a bit snarky lately. I would ask you to explain what you're getting at here, but I'll just go ahead and explain my position instead:

The central question here is whether driving is a necessity in modern society. I know others here have argued that it isn't during past discussions of things like speed limits, but I believe it is. As such, when I get in a vehicle and hit the public roads, I have the expectation that the government has taken reasonable steps to ensure that I will be protected from harm by others. While drunk driving in and of itself is a punishable crime (sure, you could argue that drunk drivers should just be charged and prosecuted appropriately and that it isn't fair to others who otherwise wold obey the law), the reality is that allowing bars to be open until 4 AM will increase the number of drunk drivers on the road during the early morning commute, hence, making it more dangerous for people to drive to work at that hour. It is also a fact that there are more people on the road at 4:30 AM than there are at 2:30 AM. As such, in weighing a balancing test of one's right to get wasted at 4 AM against one's right to drive to work in the morning on safe roads, I would suggest that the balance falls on the side of keeping the roads safe.
Ask and you shall receive...

If you’re truly in favor of business and local folks deciding for themselves then let them do it. Don’t back down when the going gets tough or the outcome might suck. There’s good and bad in any method of operation. If you want the good sometimes you have to take your medicine. There are drunk folks out in broad daylight, a couple hours isn’t gonna matter a whit. Most folks aren’t gonna take advantage of it and those that will are at somebody’s house now at 4am as it is. This just changes the venue.



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bmw
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Re: Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

Post by bmw » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:24 pm

I'll just ask you a simple question - do you believe that allowing bars to serve alcohol until 4 AM will increase the number of injuries and deaths of innocent people (as directly attributable to drunk drivers) ?



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Re: Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

Post by Rate This » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:50 pm

bmw wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:24 pm
I'll just ask you a simple question - do you believe that allowing bars to serve alcohol until 4 AM will increase the number of injuries and deaths of innocent people (as directly attributable to drunk drivers) ?
Not really. It will just sanction the venue. It’s not like it’s impossible to get drunk after 2am because all the bars close or something and I would argue that a bar can cut you off or try to stop you from driving. You probably won’t get either if you are hanging out at somebody’s house till 4am thus increasing the risk inherent in closing the bars at 2am.



Mike Oxlong
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Re: Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

Post by Mike Oxlong » Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:51 pm

bmw wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:24 pm
I'll just ask you a simple question - do you believe that allowing bars to serve alcohol until 4 AM will increase the number of injuries and deaths of innocent people (as directly attributable to drunk drivers) ?
I believe extending closing time until 4am will increase accidents. For the reasons you gave in an earlier post.

At 2am, there's not many cars on the road. A drunk may still hit another car. But the inebriated has a greater chance of driving off the road into a ditch, tree or building, only hurting themselves. Plus with few cars on the road, the cops will notice the erratic driving better.

At 4 in the morning, at least here in Western Wayne, folks are starting to go to work. As bmw says, there's at least 4X the traffic at 4-5am, than there is at 2-3am.


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Re: Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

Post by TC Talks » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:03 pm

How's it working in Illinois where closing time has been 4:00 a.m. for decades? Second shift ends at 11: 00p, throwing dinner in the mix, many of those people aren't even ready to head out until past midnight.

Very few drunk driving accidents in my area occur as a result of someone coming straight from a bar. Usually, the problems happen when a person overdrinks in a private residence.

Bars bear a lot of responsibility for over serving. With over-pour training mandatory, and insurance becoming extremely expensive if there is a claim due to overpouring, most bar owners are smart enough to self-manage.


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Re: Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

Post by Matt » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:03 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:03 pm
How's it working in Illinois where closing time has been 4:00 a.m. for decades? Second shift ends at 11: 00p, throwing dinner in the mix, many of those people aren't even ready to head out until past midnight.

Very few drunk driving accidents in my area occur as a result of someone coming straight from a bar. Usually, the problems happen when a person overdrinks in a private residence.

Bars bear a lot of responsibility for over serving. With over-pour training mandatory, and insurance becoming extremely expensive if there is a claim due to overpouring, most bar owners are smart enough to self-manage.
100% agree.



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Re: Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

Post by MasterB » Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:54 pm

I don't care if the bars close at 4AM they know when to cut those that have had too many to drink. I don't drink but in 2003 me and my stepdad went to Wayside which is no longer in business wouldn't let me in because I had no ID with me I told them I wasn't going to drink other than water but nope I was denied went to BBW. My only time that Wayside ever did that if I went no one was at the door late at night it became a club.


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Re: Idiotic State Legislature Proposes Bars Open to 4 AM

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:24 am

bmw wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:38 am
I am absolutely opposed to this particular measure.

4 AM is too late to be serving alcohol. If you make it a municipality by municipality basis, places that decide to open until 4 AM will have the competitive advantage, so people who want to go out drinking late who also live in an area not allowed to serve until 4 will travel, maybe starting out the night by traveling, thereby hurting bars in areas where it is not allowed.

The side effect of this will be not only bars in areas not allowing this being hurt by lack of business, but also the effect of putting more drunks out on the road at 4 AM, some of whom now have longer distances to drive back home. Having drunks on the road as late as 4:30 or 4:45 AM will then have an impact on the super early morning commute (ie, people traveling for 5 AM).

Nope - not in support of it.
Well said.


My mom taught me an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It's too bad Repubes don't believe in prevention for COVID, but they can deny someone water waiting in a line to vote.

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