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interesting perspective on deaths in MI

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km1125
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interesting perspective on deaths in MI

Post by km1125 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:41 pm

Ran across this site (https://www.mdch.state.mi.us/pha/osr/Pr ... Counts.asp)

I pulled the data down into a spreadsheet to do some totals:

Image

When stations are reporting "total COVID deaths" on a daily basis, why don't they EVER put it in perspective with ALL DEATHS in the state. You get the distinct impression that no one else is dying except for those with COVID. Turns out, COVID is only about 10% of the total.

I'm guessing column C includes other deaths, like vehicle and household accidents, and perhaps homicide, but I haven't been able to verify that yet. Column K totals are ones I added and are just D-J



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Turkeytop
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Re: interesting perspective on deaths in MI

Post by Turkeytop » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:21 pm

Of course. Even though Covid is the single greatest cause of death, we should just ignore it and report choking deaths and shark attack deaths instead.


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km1125
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Re: interesting perspective on deaths in MI

Post by km1125 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:52 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:21 pm
Of course. Even though Covid is the single greatest cause of death, we should just ignore it and report choking deaths and shark attack deaths instead.
Well, except you're wrong. With the state's stats (shown above), it's 3rd behind cancer and heart disease and a bit ahead of COPD and stroke (or slightly behind them if combined).

I'm just saying, put it all in perspective. How often do they report the total deaths in any of the other categories as a comparison??

On a related note though....

You'll notice on that same chart that the pneumonia and flu deaths are nearly exactly the same for 2019 and 2020.

If masks are really working to prevent COVID, why aren't they doing anything to prevent the flu? Also, why aren't the lockdowns hammering the pneumonia and flu deaths into nearly non-existence??



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Re: interesting perspective on deaths in MI

Post by Rate This » Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:17 pm

km1125 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:52 pm
Turkeytop wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:21 pm
Of course. Even though Covid is the single greatest cause of death, we should just ignore it and report choking deaths and shark attack deaths instead.
Well, except you're wrong. With the state's stats (shown above), it's 3rd behind cancer and heart disease and a bit ahead of COPD and stroke (or slightly behind them if combined).

I'm just saying, put it all in perspective. How often do they report the total deaths in any of the other categories as a comparison??

On a related note though....

You'll notice on that same chart that the pneumonia and flu deaths are nearly exactly the same for 2019 and 2020.

If masks are really working to prevent COVID, why aren't they doing anything to prevent the flu? Also, why aren't the lockdowns hammering the pneumonia and flu deaths into nearly non-existence??
Because virus sizes vary and massive numbers of Republicans don't want to follow the orders. Any child of 5 can figure this out in 30 seconds.



km1125
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Re: interesting perspective on deaths in MI

Post by km1125 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:05 pm

Rate This wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:17 pm
Because virus sizes vary and massive numbers of Republicans don't want to follow the orders. Any child of 5 can figure this out in 30 seconds.
Not sure what you're trying to say. Folks ARE wearing masks and even Whitmer has acknowledged that the mask wearing and social distancing have been having a significant impact on the spread of COVID.

If that is really the case, why aren't those same measures impacting the regular flu, which is LESS contagious than COVID??

From what we've all been told (SCIENCE, right?) It is not the virus size but the aerosol size that's the carrier and the important thing with masks. There is no difference in the aerosol size coming out of humans to spread COVID or the regular flu.



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Re: interesting perspective on deaths in MI

Post by Rate This » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:26 pm

km1125 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:05 pm
Rate This wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:17 pm
Because virus sizes vary and massive numbers of Republicans don't want to follow the orders. Any child of 5 can figure this out in 30 seconds.
Not sure what you're trying to say. Folks ARE wearing masks and even Whitmer has acknowledged that the mask wearing and social distancing have been having a significant impact on the spread of COVID.

If that is really the case, why aren't those same measures impacting the regular flu, which is LESS contagious than COVID??

From what we've all been told (SCIENCE, right?) It is not the virus size but the aerosol size that's the carrier and the important thing with masks. There is no difference in the aerosol size coming out of humans to spread COVID or the regular flu.
So now you’re going to contradict yourself... you can’t have it every way and then twist yourself into a pretzel to justify why this is wrong anyways.



km1125
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Re: interesting perspective on deaths in MI

Post by km1125 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:46 pm

Rate This wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:26 pm
So now you’re going to contradict yourself... you can’t have it every way and then twist yourself into a pretzel to justify why this is wrong anyways.
How am I contradicting myself?



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Re: interesting perspective on deaths in MI

Post by Rate This » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:57 pm

km1125 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:46 pm
Rate This wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:26 pm
So now you’re going to contradict yourself... you can’t have it every way and then twist yourself into a pretzel to justify why this is wrong anyways.
How am I contradicting myself?
By pointing out differences in case loads and then declaring masks work and don’t work. Pick one.



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Re: interesting perspective on deaths in MI

Post by craig11152 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:11 pm

Rate This wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:17 pm
Because virus sizes vary and massive numbers of Republicans don't want to follow the orders. Any child of 5 can figure this out in 30 seconds.
You haven't noticed anybody but republicans not wearing masks?


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Rate This
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Re: interesting perspective on deaths in MI

Post by Rate This » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:08 pm

craig11152 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:11 pm
Rate This wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:17 pm
Because virus sizes vary and massive numbers of Republicans don't want to follow the orders. Any child of 5 can figure this out in 30 seconds.
You haven't noticed anybody but republicans not wearing masks?
While obviously folks of all stripes are not wearing masks it’s pretty clear which party is actively promoting them and which is downplaying them. It’s reasonable to infer that a larger number of people not wearing masks belong to the party telling its followers that masks are a choice and they don’t work and the virus is a hoax. All clearly being said by prominent members of only one of the parties. You lose.



km1125
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Re: interesting perspective on deaths in MI

Post by km1125 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:09 pm

Rate This wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:57 pm
km1125 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:46 pm
Rate This wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:26 pm
So now you’re going to contradict yourself... you can’t have it every way and then twist yourself into a pretzel to justify why this is wrong anyways.
How am I contradicting myself?
By pointing out differences in case loads and then declaring masks work and don’t work. Pick one.
No, I'm posing the question. If they work on COVID (which, supposedly they do), then why don't the state's stats show them working on the regular flu too??



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Re: interesting perspective on deaths in MI

Post by Rate This » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:13 pm

km1125 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:09 pm
Rate This wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:57 pm
km1125 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:46 pm
Rate This wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:26 pm
So now you’re going to contradict yourself... you can’t have it every way and then twist yourself into a pretzel to justify why this is wrong anyways.
How am I contradicting myself?
By pointing out differences in case loads and then declaring masks work and don’t work. Pick one.
No, I'm posing the question. If they work on COVID (which, supposedly they do), then why don't the state's stats show them working on the regular flu too??
Because the virus particle sizes are different. There may also be some differences in how the virus is spread. There could be any number of reasons.



km1125
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Re: interesting perspective on deaths in MI

Post by km1125 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:17 pm

Rate This wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:13 pm
Because the virus particle sizes are different. There may also be some differences in how the virus is spread. There could be any number of reasons.
We've been told over and over - it's not the virus particle size or none of the masks would work. The virus particle size is well below the threshold for even an N95 or N100 to work. They work because they control the aerosols which carry the virus particles. Those aerosols are much MUCH larger than the (any) virus particles and therefore the masks -any masks- would (or should) have similar performance for any of these viruses - both 'normal' flu and COVID-19

THAT is a "science-based" perspective.



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Re: interesting perspective on deaths in MI

Post by Rate This » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:20 pm

km1125 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:17 pm
Rate This wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:13 pm
Because the virus particle sizes are different. There may also be some differences in how the virus is spread. There could be any number of reasons.
We've been told over and over - it's not the virus particle size or none of the masks would work. The virus particle size is well below the threshold for even an N95 or N100 to work. They work because they control the aerosols which carry the virus particles. Those aerosols are much MUCH larger than the (any) virus particles and therefore the masks -any masks- would (or should) have similar performance for any of these viruses - both 'normal' flu and COVID-19

THAT is a "science-based" perspective.
And they are still two different viruses that spread differently and are different levels of contagious and on and on. You can’t just look at the numbers, compare them and come to some sort of wild conclusion. You’re comparing a jeep to a cement mixer.
Last edited by Rate This on Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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TC Talks
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Re: interesting perspective on deaths in MI

Post by TC Talks » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:55 pm

Michigan's rate of death is 20% higher this year than the previous 10-year trend.

You can play games all you want but more people have died in Michigan this year because of covid.
By month’s end, the death toll from COVID-19 will approach 12,000 in Michigan, making it the No. 3 cause of death this year behind heart disease and cancer.
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