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Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

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Rate This
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Re: Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

Post by Rate This » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:25 pm

Bryce wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:28 pm
Rate This wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:18 pm

That’s why they were released after being whisked away and read their rights... you’re not going to find an actual legal justification for that procedure because there isn’t one. Taking somebody away in an unmarked van with their hat pulled over their head and arms up in the air at gun point getting them to the court house and into a holding cell and then dealing with their rights is not what we do in the United States. It’s not legal. It violates the 4th amendment quite clearly. And they had the wrong people to boot! So they denied they ever had the guy. :lol

This is political theater from DHS and the Trump Administration. If I was Oregon I would be strongly considering the possibility of state police or my national guard troops getting into it by force with the DHS folks if They are seen doing this. Oregon would be well within its rights to do so.
Tell that to the people vacationing at Club Gitmo. You know, the place that Obama made a campaign promise that he was going to close.

Since 2001, if someone is labeled or suspected of terrorism, the rules you cite don't apply anymore.
But they aren’t being accused of terrorism... they are being accused of vandalism of federal property. There also is no mechanism to designate domestic terrorism and lastly even Tom Ridge who was there on day 1 as the first head of DHS has come out and said DHS was not meant to be used in this way.



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Re: Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

Post by Bryce » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:23 pm

Rate This wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:25 pm

But they aren’t being accused of terrorism... they are being accused of vandalism of federal property. There also is no mechanism to designate domestic terrorism and lastly even Tom Ridge who was there on day 1 as the first head of DHS has come out and said DHS was not meant to be used in this way.
18 U.S. Code § 2332b.Acts of terrorism

(B)creates a substantial risk of serious bodily injury to any other person by destroying or damaging any structure, conveyance, or other real or personal property within the United States or by attempting or conspiring to destroy or damage any structure, conveyance, or other real or personal property within the United States;
(b)Jurisdictional Bases.

(C)the victim, or intended victim, is the United States Government, a member of the uniformed services, or any official, officer, employee, or agent of the legislative, executive, or judicial branches, or of any department or agency, of the United States;
(D)the structure, conveyance, or other real or personal property is, in whole or in part, owned, possessed, or leased to the United States, or any department or agency of the United States;
In addition, do you think Federal Law Enforcement needs permission from local or state officials to conduct gun running, drug dealing or RICO statute investigations or to detain people during the course of?

Did the feds get permission local or state government when they sent a team of armed agents to take Gen Flynn out of his home in the early morning? Didn't hear a peep from you guys then,.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Re: Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

Post by Rate This » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:56 pm

Bryce wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:23 pm
Rate This wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:25 pm

But they aren’t being accused of terrorism... they are being accused of vandalism of federal property. There also is no mechanism to designate domestic terrorism and lastly even Tom Ridge who was there on day 1 as the first head of DHS has come out and said DHS was not meant to be used in this way.
18 U.S. Code § 2332b.Acts of terrorism

(B)creates a substantial risk of serious bodily injury to any other person by destroying or damaging any structure, conveyance, or other real or personal property within the United States or by attempting or conspiring to destroy or damage any structure, conveyance, or other real or personal property within the United States;
(b)Jurisdictional Bases.

(C)the victim, or intended victim, is the United States Government, a member of the uniformed services, or any official, officer, employee, or agent of the legislative, executive, or judicial branches, or of any department or agency, of the United States;
(D)the structure, conveyance, or other real or personal property is, in whole or in part, owned, possessed, or leased to the United States, or any department or agency of the United States;
In addition, do you think Federal Law Enforcement needs permission from local or state officials to conduct gun running, drug dealing or RICO statute investigations or to detain people during the course of?

Did the feds get permission local or state government when they sent a team of armed agents to take Gen Flynn out of his home in the early morning? Didn't hear a peep from you guys then,.
The issue is that these folks are being cnatched up with no explanation... thrown into a van... taken to a courthouse... thrown in a cell... read their Miranda rights... asked if they want to talk and released if they say no. Then given no record that it happened. Probable cause is a requirement of a detainment or arrest. It’s not optional and no department can subvert the 4th amendment just because it’s inconvenient to anyone’s kabuki theater agenda. This is not what DHS was created for. Don’t ask me. Ask Tom.



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Re: Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

Post by Bryce » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:45 pm

Rate This wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:56 pm

The issue is that these folks are being cnatched up with no explanation... thrown into a van... taken to a courthouse... thrown in a cell... read their Miranda rights... asked if they want to talk and released if they say no. Then given no record that it happened.
Yup, got that.
Rate This wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:56 pm
Probable cause is a requirement of a detainment or arrest. It’s not optional and no department can subvert the 4th amendment just because it’s inconvenient to anyone’s kabuki theater agenda.
Yup, got that.

And yes, yes they can... CIA does it all the time, so does DHS and even the FBI gets in on the fun once in a while.

According to the Patriot Act, people SUSPECTED of domestic terrorism, even U.S. Citizens, can be captured and detained for seven days.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Re: Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

Post by TC Talks » Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:17 pm

Look who's acting like a leader? The Big Gretch in today's New York Times. She sounds like someone who cares about the economy. So much more that many Red States that are on fire with COVID spread.
We are now working around the clock to restart our economy in a way that protects workers, businesses and families. But as people in Michigan and across the country begin to return to work, cases are rising again. To slow the rise and further protect our families from this virus, we need the Trump administration to issue a federal mask mandate.

When more Americans wear a mask in public, we can save lives and put ourselves in a better position to send our children back to school in the fall.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/opin ... masks.html


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
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Re: Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

Post by Matt » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:34 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:17 pm
Look who's acting like a leader? The Big Gretch in today's New York Times. She sounds like someone who cares about the economy. So much more that many Red States that are on fire with COVID spread.
We are now working around the clock to restart our economy in a way that protects workers, businesses and families. But as people in Michigan and across the country begin to return to work, cases are rising again. To slow the rise and further protect our families from this virus, we need the Trump administration to issue a federal mask mandate.

When more Americans wear a mask in public, we can save lives and put ourselves in a better position to send our children back to school in the fall.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/opin ... masks.html
An incompetent moron writing a letter telling the federal government to do something it can't legally do is hardly leadership. I'm surprised you aren't cheering the executive overreach in Portland like you cheered it in Lansing.


What's more pathetic: harassing an old man who is paying to do a radio show or supporting a grifter like Trump?

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Re: Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

Post by TC Talks » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:52 pm

I'll bite, lots of health requirements are federal mandated or incentivized by funding, why can't they?


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
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bmw
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Re: Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

Post by bmw » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:04 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:17 pm
Look who's acting like a leader? The Big Gretch in today's New York Times. She sounds like someone who cares about the economy. So much more that many Red States that are on fire with COVID spread.
Why do you keep saying that RED states are on fire with Covid? What about California?

When are people going to finally realize that the government can't do DIDDLY SQUAT to slow this thing down.



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Re: Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

Post by Matt » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:04 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:52 pm
I'll bite, lots of health requirements are federal mandated or incentivized by funding, why can't they?
Seat belt use or the drinking age are probably the closest comparisons. Neither are federally mandated, but both are strongly incentivized through federal funding. How do you do that for short term gain? What are the long term consequences?


What's more pathetic: harassing an old man who is paying to do a radio show or supporting a grifter like Trump?

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Re: Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

Post by TC Talks » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:26 pm

bmw wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:04 pm
TC Talks wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:17 pm
Look who's acting like a leader? The Big Gretch in today's New York Times. She sounds like someone who cares about the economy. So much more that many Red States that are on fire with COVID spread.
Why do you keep saying that RED states are on fire with Covid? What about California?

When are people going to finally realize that the government can't do DIDDLY SQUAT to slow this thing down.
Any data to support this? Lots of data that supports mask usage. Even Trump is now calling for masks.


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

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Re: Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

Post by TC Talks » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:27 pm

Matt wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:04 pm
TC Talks wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:52 pm
I'll bite, lots of health requirements are federal mandated or incentivized by funding, why can't they?
Seat belt use or the drinking age are probably the closest comparisons. Neither are federally mandated, but both are strongly incentivized through federal funding. How do you do that for short term gain? What are the long term consequences?
I can think of lots of states that will need federal help in the next few years. Mask bonus?


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

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Re: Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

Post by Rate This » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:42 pm

bmw wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:04 pm
TC Talks wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:17 pm
Look who's acting like a leader? The Big Gretch in today's New York Times. She sounds like someone who cares about the economy. So much more that many Red States that are on fire with COVID spread.
Why do you keep saying that RED states are on fire with Covid? What about California?

When are people going to finally realize that the government can't do DIDDLY SQUAT to slow this thing down.
Other developed nations HAVE slowed it. That’s the point.



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Re: Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

Post by Matt » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:44 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:27 pm
Matt wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:04 pm
TC Talks wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:52 pm
I'll bite, lots of health requirements are federal mandated or incentivized by funding, why can't they?
Seat belt use or the drinking age are probably the closest comparisons. Neither are federally mandated, but both are strongly incentivized through federal funding. How do you do that for short term gain? What are the long term consequences?
I can think of lots of states that will need federal help in the next few years. Mask bonus?
It's a (hopefully) short term issue. How do you legally do it?


What's more pathetic: harassing an old man who is paying to do a radio show or supporting a grifter like Trump?

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Re: Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

Post by Rate This » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:45 pm

Bryce wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:45 pm
Rate This wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:56 pm

The issue is that these folks are being cnatched up with no explanation... thrown into a van... taken to a courthouse... thrown in a cell... read their Miranda rights... asked if they want to talk and released if they say no. Then given no record that it happened.
Yup, got that.
Rate This wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:56 pm
Probable cause is a requirement of a detainment or arrest. It’s not optional and no department can subvert the 4th amendment just because it’s inconvenient to anyone’s kabuki theater agenda.
Yup, got that.

And yes, yes they can... CIA does it all the time, so does DHS and even the FBI gets in on the fun once in a while.

According to the Patriot Act, people SUSPECTED of domestic terrorism, even U.S. Citizens, can be captured and detained for seven days.
But they aren’t saying domestic terrorism... it’s something vague about protecting federal property. Then they are seen blocks and blocks away grabbing people. That’s where the problem lies. Nobody is talking about terrorism here.



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Re: Governor Whitmer strengthens Executive Order on masks

Post by TC Talks » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:01 pm

Rate This wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:45 pm
Bryce wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:45 pm
Rate This wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:56 pm

The issue is that these folks are being cnatched up with no explanation... thrown into a van... taken to a courthouse... thrown in a cell... read their Miranda rights... asked if they want to talk and released if they say no. Then given no record that it happened.
Yup, got that.
Rate This wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:56 pm
Probable cause is a requirement of a detainment or arrest. It’s not optional and no department can subvert the 4th amendment just because it’s inconvenient to anyone’s kabuki theater agenda.
Yup, got that.

And yes, yes they can... CIA does it all the time, so does DHS and even the FBI gets in on the fun once in a while.

According to the Patriot Act, people SUSPECTED of domestic terrorism, even U.S. Citizens, can be captured and detained for seven days.
But they aren’t saying domestic terrorism... it’s something vague about protecting federal property. Then they are seen blocks and blocks away grabbing people. That’s where the problem lies. Nobody is talking about terrorism here.
It was also stated very clearly when the Patroit Act was passed that this type of thing was not going to happen. This will have ramifications.


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

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