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WOMC HD WYCD HD

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
ramboy
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WOMC HD WYCD HD

Post by ramboy » Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:26 am

It seems like Entercom Detroit is shutting down there HD side channels. I went to listen to WOMC HD2 (oldies 104.3) and it's gone, same with WOMC HD3. Then I went to check out WYCD 99.5 HD2 (smooth jazz) and it's gone as well. WXYT 97.1 The ticket still has HD 2 (WWJ rebroadcast) and HD3 (the bet). Now can they turn off the IBOC ( I think it's called). Sound quality was never as good as it could have been. What I was told is the final analog feed with all the compression and tweaks was fed into HD, so it really didn't change what you heard. If they could have ran HD on a separate feed from the board with little or no processing it would have sounded very clean and maybe had a better chance of survival.



Rich S
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Re: WOMC HD WYCD HD

Post by Rich S » Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:34 am

HD radio was fun for a long time. 96.3 HD 2 planet (alt classics)…sunny 100.3 (10 years!)…deep cuts on 94.7…too bad that it didn’t work out. Always seemed a bit odd how broadcasters offered commercial free options with BETTER formats than their primary signal. I think there just wasn’t enough awareness nor vehicles that had the option. I never had a home receiver but have to believe it would have been hard to pickup HD signals inside of homes/buildings. I think eventually all HD sub channels will be gone nationwide. It’s really too bad.



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audiophile
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Re: WOMC HD WYCD HD

Post by audiophile » Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:39 am

ramboy wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:26 am
It seems like Entercom Detroit is shutting down there HD side channels. I went to listen to WOMC HD2 (oldies 104.3) and it's gone, same with WOMC HD3. Then I went to check out WYCD 99.5 HD2 (smooth jazz) and it's gone as well. WXYT 97.1 The ticket still has HD 2 (WWJ rebroadcast) and HD3 (the bet). Now can they turn off the IBOC ( I think it's called). Sound quality was never as good as it could have been. What I was told is the final analog feed with all the compression and tweaks was fed into HD, so it really didn't change what you heard. If they could have ran HD on a separate feed from the board with little or no processing it would have sounded very clean and maybe had a better chance of survival.
You if you ran completely separate processing, the blending back and forth would sound really bad. It's bad enough now with time alignment issues and HD being too bright, or frankly the bitrate being too low on HD (because it was sending too many bits to HD subchannels).

After working in lab setting with HD for months, I really felt the best option was use better processing (like Omnia 9) and back off final limiter a tad, then send same audio to FM and HD1 (after de-emp). And my gosh, never use less than 64k on HD1 (many station engineers have no concept of how SBR actually works - it should be avoided like the plague). Blending was perfect then. The main thing you notice when it switches to HD is the noise floor drops and separation opens up.

In most cases, because how it's "incorrectly" setup, I prefer the sound of analog FM. Better bass and less weird artifacts.


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

Mega Hertz
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Location: Brighton

Re: WOMC HD WYCD HD

Post by Mega Hertz » Sat Mar 11, 2023 1:53 pm

That really sucks. Thanks to HD radio, I had a place start working on my craft without moving to a daytimer in Lima, Ohio. Said what I wanted, played what I wanted and it helped move me on to the main FMs. It was a good idea, just not executed very well.


"Internet is no more like radio than intravenous feeding is like fine dining."
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ZenithCKLW
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Re: WOMC HD WYCD HD

Post by ZenithCKLW » Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:03 pm

Do we think this is permanent? I still have the WOMC AND WNIC HD stations on my presets that I’ve been hesitating to remove in case they come back.



Marcus
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Location: Sarnia, Ontario

Re: WOMC HD WYCD HD

Post by Marcus » Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:41 pm

They might not bring those HD-2 broadcasts back. IHeartRadio did the same thing last year. What they could do now is move the Newsradio 950 WWJ audio over from 97.1 HD-2 to 104.3 HD-2.



SolidGoldDancers
Posts: 187
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Re: WOMC HD WYCD HD

Post by SolidGoldDancers » Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:59 am

That would be something if they all bailed on it, what a colossal waste of money and opportunity.

Terrestrial radio keeps pissing away chances to remain relevant and instead leaps toward a national radio monoculture in an attempt to combat personality driven streaming and podcasts.

Rake around it and light it on fire.



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Plate Cap
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Location: After the rectifier stack

Re: WOMC HD WYCD HD

Post by Plate Cap » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:11 pm

audiophile wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:39 am
After working in lab setting with HD for months, I really felt the best option was use better processing (like Omnia 9) and back off final limiter a tad, then send same audio to FM and HD1 (after de-emp). And my gosh, never use less than 64k on HD1 (many station engineers have no concept of how SBR actually works - it should be avoided like the plague). Blending was perfect then. The main thing you notice when it switches to HD is the noise floor drops and separation opens up.

In most cases, because how it's "incorrectly" setup, I prefer the sound of analog FM. Better bass and less weird artifacts.
Excellent points, and I agree completely. A properly set up HD really jumps out at you when the switch occurs. Many don't even get the delay timing right, let along processing.
SolidGoldDancers wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:59 am
That would be something if they all bailed on it, what a colossal waste of money and opportunity.

Terrestrial radio keeps pissing away chances to remain relevant and instead leaps toward a national radio monoculture in an attempt to combat personality driven streaming and podcasts.
You said it all, SGD. It was administrated and marketed poorly from its beginning. Ibiquity, now Xperi seem(ed) (s) only interested in collecting licensing fees. There is no mass marketing / education to listeners, educating them on the technology. Most listeners don't have a clue its even there.

It's almost as if there was a force working within terrestrial radio intentionally making all the wrong decisions to doom it.
Rich S wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:34 am
96.3 HD 2 planet (alt classics)…sunny 100.3 (10 years!)…deep cuts on 94.7…too bad that it didn’t work out. Always seemed a bit odd how broadcasters offered commercial free options with BETTER formats than their primary signal. .....<snip> ..... I think eventually all HD sub channels will be gone nationwide. It’s really too bad.
Rich, I couldn't agree more. Add that excellent point to the fact that an HD2 or 3 channel essentially competes with the main channel for listener ears (if you don't spot load it), it's doomed to fail.


An excellent thread so far.....very good discussion. The points are all nailing the issue right on the head.


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

edj
Posts: 1963
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Re: WOMC HD WYCD HD

Post by edj » Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:21 pm

I bought a new car last month. No HD radio in it. I didn't even bother asking for one. To this day the old cars I've driven with it have been rentals. No unit at home either. When even those with an interest in broadcasting don't seek for it, you know it's a dud



ChrisWL1980
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Re: WOMC HD WYCD HD

Post by ChrisWL1980 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:40 pm

It is permanent. Audacy is doing it nationwide.
By the way, 99.5 HD2 was "Wolf Picks" New so-called "Country." Smooth Jazz was 98.7 HD2. Last I checked 98.7 HD2 was airing Channel Q, but indications are its days are numbered. Channel Q has eliminated its personalities in recent months and Audacy just sold off its Channel Q station in Palm Springs (interestingly to the competition for the LGBTQ+/Dance market, who flipped it to MeTV-FM).
My dad's new car (a Jeep Cherokee) also does not have HD radio. His previous model did. Of course, he lives in Lansing, where the HD radio pickings are even more slim (100.7 WITL's HD2 and HD3 exist only to feed more Jesus music drones, 90.5 WKAR's HD2 is the same news/talk format as 870 AM/102.3 FM, and 89.7 WLNZ is HD1 only).
For smooth jazz I've been streaming 106.3 The Seabreeze out of Florida and 98.3 The Wave out of Vancouver. It sucks though to no longer have a smooth jazz option to listen to when my Internet isn't working. The reason why I bought an HD radio in the first place was to hear V98.7 again.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: WOMC HD WYCD HD

Post by MWmetalhead » Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:14 am

Big broadcasters have finally come to the realization that usage of HD side channels as an exclusive programming source is a complete waste of time and resources.

Why continue to dump resources into something that attracts less than 1% of all radio listening?

If the side channels can be used to feed an analog FM translator that can be self-sufficient from a revenue standpoint, fine. If they can be used to simulcast an AM sister station, fine.

These moves should've happened much sooner, in all honesty.



ftballfan
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Re: WOMC HD WYCD HD

Post by ftballfan » Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:47 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:14 am
If the side channels can be used to feed an analog FM translator that can be self-sufficient from a revenue standpoint, fine. If they can be used to simulcast an AM sister station, fine.

These moves should've happened much sooner, in all honesty.
Or to fill in holes in a sister FM's coverage area (which isn't an issue in Detroit; but there are a couple of cases of an HD2 being used to simulcast another full-power FM that doesn't have full market coverage - in Tampa, Rumba 106.5 (iHeart and rimshots from the south) is rebroadcast on US103.5 HD2 while 102.5 the Bone (Cox and also rimshots from the south) is rebroadcast on 107.3 the Eagle HD2)



ChrisWL1980
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Re: WOMC HD WYCD HD

Post by ChrisWL1980 » Mon Mar 13, 2023 6:05 pm

May have spoken too soon about WITL. Its HD is now off and the 95.3 and 95.9 translators are silent.
Good for Townsquare. Two fewer Jesus music drones with zero local content to clog up the dial.
What I think is really a waste of electricity is using HD on a spoken word format like WUOM (which has no side channels). If I'm listening to This American Life, I don't care if it's HD or analog. 91.1 WFUM's HD went off years ago and has never come back on.



Marcus
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Location: Sarnia, Ontario

Re: WOMC HD WYCD HD

Post by Marcus » Mon Mar 13, 2023 6:51 pm

They might or might not be be replacing HD radio and hopefully FM translators with something else in the next few years.

https://www.insideradio.com/free/tv-s-n ... 4ade3.html

I won't make predictions this early as many of us know what happened to AM Stereo, Minidisc, Laserdisc, etc.



ConstipatedListener
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Re: WOMC HD WYCD HD

Post by ConstipatedListener » Wed Mar 15, 2023 7:50 pm

The only one left worth a hoot is RIFF-2. (Fingers crossed.)
I think the only thing left after that will be AM simulcasts, maybe sports talk, and religious.



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