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Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
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MWmetalhead
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Re: Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Post by MWmetalhead » Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:32 pm

To suggest electronic music can be successful as an FM format because NPR is successful is absurd reasoning.

EDM has been tried on translator signals in South Florida. It draws tiny ratings.



Mega Hertz
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Re: Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Post by Mega Hertz » Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:36 pm

I would have to imagine it's even more of a niche format than what passes for alternative.

Post Malone
Motley Crue
Madonna
Kane Brown

Those are your format choices. Eat up.


"Internet is no more like radio than intravenous feeding is like fine dining."
-TurkeyTop

Marcus
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Re: Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Post by Marcus » Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:50 pm

Wikipedia has articles on both Dance Radio and Public Radio. There are some Dance stations on FM in North America, but not many.
The one in Seattle is Non Commercial.

The first U.S. Public Radio Network was Pacifica Radio. NPR was formed later. The CBC in Canada and The BBC in the UK go back even further.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_radio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_broadcasting#Radio



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TC Talks
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Re: Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Post by TC Talks » Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:55 pm

KEXP Seattle (which runs emd) is one of the most streamed stations in the US. They also are the highest Per Capita giving public station nationally. Electronic (EMD) isn't the same exactly as Dance...

They are also in 4th place 12+ in Seattle. Not bad for 4700 Watts, half the wattage as the high school station you cite.

At what point do stations learn they can go beyond a local market (with national advertising). It's probably a strategy for a group outside the big ownership. Not one suggested format here is going to grow listeners, just steal the ever shrinking existing listeners.

Who reaches 12 - 18? In the past 15 years I haven't seen a commercial format that grows a young market. If there is no desire to continue to add new listeners, what is the point to this discussion?

How about a Hot Christian Talk station?


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

stopnswop2
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Re: Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Post by stopnswop2 » Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:25 am

What about a Rhythm AC that plays 80s and 90s dance music.
La Bouche, Corona, Janet, etc.

Is EDM even popular anymore? How could you make a whole station with it


Music is my life.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Post by MWmetalhead » Tue Nov 08, 2022 6:15 am

KEXP Seattle (which runs emd) is one of the most streamed stations in the US.
EDM is a tiny portion of that station's total programming.
At what point do stations learn they can go beyond a local market (with national advertising)?
Seems like a recipe for pissing away money, if ya ask me.



armchair pd
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Re: Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Post by armchair pd » Tue Nov 08, 2022 7:44 am

Colonel Flagg wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:39 am
MWmetalhead wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 9:20 am


I think something needs to happen with 96.3. Then again, I had the same thought while working there 20 years ago, while the suits from Disney tinkered with the music. It's an uninteresting, dud station, that can't decide what it's supposed to be. An overhaul is long overdue.
Excellent take.
IMHU they sounded better under the previous PD. Under the current guy they are milquetoast. No sizzle.



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Plate Cap
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Re: Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Post by Plate Cap » Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:34 am

Although I have the greatest respect for individual opinions here, especially as regards 'taste' matters like programming, I really don't understand why these discussions occur.

Everyone has a favorite music genre, or a group of them, and it often seems like as if the poster can't understand why that genre isn't adopted by a station somewhere.....or why the one that tried it in West Undershirt, KS doesn't catch on everywhere. That's a simplistic evaluation of the discussion, but I think pretty accurate.

In a given day, I listen to bluegrass, 70's southern rock, elevator music, 60's pop, and more. To get most of that, I need to stream. No station is going to specialize in any of that as a format.

I won't insult the intelligence of everyone here, but I think we all agree that when an operator pays many millions for an allocation, they gotta get both a lot of ears, and those that want to sell to those ears. Almost all do it poorly, letting corporate programmers make the choices. There just are no more Rosalie Trombleys out there doing corporate programming. Add that with the horrible amount of spot loads needed to cover the nut, no one wants to listen. I know I don't.

I like specialty mac and cheese. If I bought a restaurant in Manhattan and paid $200 million for the building and business, I probably would would go broke very quickly selling mac and cheese....even if it was wonderful. Ya gotta produce what an awful lot of people will pay a lot for....and mac and cheese it not that.

The problem is, to carry that stupid analogy a little further.....people are no longer eating in such restaurants. Streaming is the new 'food' for those people.

Late last week, I was on a tiny little island in the Exhumas in the Bahamas. 120 people live there. There was music everywhere....ear buds, in the 3 restaurants, in the 2 stores, on porches, and in the golf carts running around. There are no radio stations to listen to, but no one cares because they have plenty of music from streaming and MP3s. It's a microcosm, but it's happening. They don't miss radio one tiny little bit.

Radio as we know it is at best very, very ill.....perhaps terminal.....some say dead. Beyond esoteric groups like the subscribers on this board, it's no longer relevant to young people. We look at ourselves and our history of listening and pretend it isn't so, but it is. Further, measurement of listeners is inaccurate for many, many reasons, but it's all the industry has so they pretend it is working. If it were not for short trips in cars where streaming preparations are impractical, no one under 40 would be listening at all.....except us.

I have had a great career thanks to radio, and all this kinda hurts, but it's the way it is.


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

armchair pd
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Re: Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Post by armchair pd » Tue Nov 08, 2022 12:46 pm

Plate Cap wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:34 am
Although I have the greatest respect for individual opinions here, especially as regards 'taste' matters like programming, I really don't understand why these discussions occur.

Everyone has a favorite music genre, or a group of them, and it often seems like as if the poster can't understand why that genre isn't adopted by a station somewhere.....or why the one that tried it in West Undershirt, KS doesn't catch on everywhere. That's a simplistic evaluation of the discussion, but I think pretty accurate.

In a given day, I listen to bluegrass, 70's southern rock, elevator music, 60's pop, and more. To get most of that, I need to stream. No station is going to specialize in any of that as a format.

I won't insult the intelligence of everyone here, but I think we all agree that when an operator pays many millions for an allocation, they gotta get both a lot of ears, and those that want to sell to those ears. Almost all do it poorly, letting corporate programmers make the choices. There just are no more Rosalie Trombleys out there doing corporate programming. Add that with the horrible amount of spot loads needed to cover the nut, no one wants to listen. I know I don't.

I like specialty mac and cheese. If I bought a restaurant in Manhattan and paid $200 million for the building and business, I probably would would go broke very quickly selling mac and cheese....even if it was wonderful. Ya gotta produce what an awful lot of people will pay a lot for....and mac and cheese it not that.

The problem is, to carry that stupid analogy a little further.....people are no longer eating in such restaurants. Streaming is the new 'food' for those people.

Late last week, I was on a tiny little island in the Exhumas in the Bahamas. 120 people live there. There was music everywhere....ear buds, in the 3 restaurants, in the 2 stores, on porches, and in the golf carts running around. There are no radio stations to listen to, but no one cares because they have plenty of music from streaming and MP3s. It's a microcosm, but it's happening. They don't miss radio one tiny little bit.

Radio as we know it is at best very, very ill.....perhaps terminal.....some say dead. Beyond esoteric groups like the subscribers on this board, it's no longer relevant to young people. We look at ourselves and our history of listening and pretend it isn't so, but it is. Further, measurement of listeners is inaccurate for many, many reasons, but it's all the industry has so they pretend it is working. If it were not for short trips in cars where streaming preparations are impractical, no one under 40 would be listening at all.....except us.

I have had a great career thanks to radio, and all this kinda hurts, but it's the way it is.
Sadly, I can't disagree with most of this. |I



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Colonel Flagg
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Re: Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Post by Colonel Flagg » Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:21 pm

ZenithCKLW wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 4:59 pm
Warning: Venting and ranting alert, TL;DR at the bottom. But I have ideas. But they'll never be adopted because we have iHeartMedia and Audacy and Cumulus.

I am so fatigued with Detroit radio due to the musical chairs of bland, generic formats. Our choices are general classic hits, general A/C, general country, general rock, general CHR pop, general news/sports/talk. Amazingly, I feel the only diverse format is religious in nature (and when I say diverse, I mean diverse WITHIN the religious "format" from Brother Stair to Christian Rock as much as I am not into religious programming). Worn and rusty cookie cutter formats seem to serve people who turn on the radio for safe background music and don't really care what they hear - what a great standard. There is no excitement in hearing Don't Stop Believin' on 8 different stations. There is not enough nuance to make me choose WNIC over WDVD, or WOMC over WNIC, or CIDR over WKQI, or WLLZ over WCSX, or even WDZH over WRIF for example. All bland, all the same. All old news.

Done well, music formats that uniquely cater to a carefully crafted range of moods, production styles, instruments or tempo, vocal styles, or whatever common element that are truly unique would grab my attention to discover new sounds. Done well, talk formats that cater to personalities, curiosities, and interests beyond politics or religion to learn new knowledge. Who listens to the radio to discover new music anymore? And whose fault is it? I listen to Spotify and streaming stations because the terrestrial broadcasters just can't get out of their own way and interest me or anyone I know. Nothing makes me turn off the radio faster than bland and predictable programming. "The All 80's Lunch" is not enticing as it simply groups music together from a certain time period. Ho hum. Nothing interesting about hearing A-Ha followed by Thompson Twins then Madonna. As nostalgic as I can be, I am not interested in what decade some music came from when I am looking for entertainment.

I am craving something new and interesting so badly, but these broadcasting corporations just can't pull a new idea out of their asses. I don't accept broadcasters who think pedantry like adding more of a certain artist in the rotation is sufficient to get me to listen. I don't want to hear any radio station formatted as classic hits, country, pop, rock - I want an entirely new and different programming strategy across the entire spectrum so I can rely on the radio to be diverse and relevant again (one station with a unique format probably won't get me to return to radio).

Radio broadcasters have a much larger pie they're competing for - if they think they can get a 15+ share and bill millions of dollars by continuing to tweak these 40 year old formats that have sent people running for other options like streaming, they're nuts. They need to stop expecting those kinds of ratings and revenues. I believe AM could be relevant again if broadcasters were able to convince listeners that it's not the place just for angry old men, religion, news, or other unentertaining programming as we've been conditioned to believe, regardless of AM's limitations.

Radio broadcasting does have limitations when compared to new technology: it's local/regional, you need a special device that isn't a phone, advertising isn't tailored, listeners can't customize content - OK, but are those valid reasons for broadcasters to "give up" and say "well that's a dead medium, you need to accept our lazy programming, and download our app for it!" Radio stations are going the Sears route due to lack of imagination and investment. You can't stimulate long term growth by simply cutting costs without new investment. I also don't accept that radio is dying a slow death because people have a way to conveniently curate their own playlists. I still want to be entertained and excited by what I hear. There's a reason Don't Stop Believin' is not on my Spotify playlist. Radio has a real opportunity to reach people in new ways - I hear so much of it while streaming. Broadcasters just don't air it because they can't monetize it the way they want, or in monetize it in comparison with their local competitors.

Imagine if we didn't have any more specialty cuisine restaurants, like Italian restaurants, American, Chinese, seafood, Indian, Mediterranean and Greek, Japanese hibachi, Mexican, steakhouses, pizza, vegan, local taste, expensive upper class, or cheap fast food, and instead we had only Applebees, TGI Fridays, Taco Bell, and McDonald's and they tried to tell you their "variety" and "diversity of cuisine options" was all you could have because that's the only kind of food that exists. That's how I feel about radio.

I bet many of you will say my ideas are unrealistic, dumb, the ideas of a radio enthusiast and not the average listener, or "will never work because..." and for that, I say sayonara to radio.

TL;DR: Broadcasters are too boring, repetitive, and unimaginative to keep me engaged so I will leave. I am willing to come back because I want to be entertained by great content, but I don't have time and attention to waste for poor, lazy programming across the entire dial.
Using restaurants as an example reminds me of something... What was the movie where Sly Stallone wakes up from a deep sleep 50 years into the future? He meets a hot girl, offers to take her to dinner, and she breaks the news to him that "All restaurants are Taco Bell now" With respect to radio, I think we're almost there.


"Pretty soon, every kid in America will wish he were me"

jaywmi
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Re: Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Post by jaywmi » Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:22 pm

Still far, far too niche, even in Detroit. The format has never really succeeded anywhere in the US, even though it has been tried in waves in some markets (every time EDM becomes even remotely popular, which seems to have ebbs and flows about every five to seven years). The target demo would likely play it via Spotify or a customized streaming-only radio station anyway.
TC Talks wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 2:45 pm
Explain to me why there is no Electronic station in Detroit?

H*** community of wealthy active fans 18-34
Detroit is credited with inventing the genre
The equivalent to Motown in the 1960's

Some opportunities are so obvious it's painful. Even if you don't get cumes, you get great aqh's and you'll have advertisers.



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TC Talks
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Re: Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Post by TC Talks » Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:13 pm

armchair pd wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 12:46 pm
Plate Cap wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:34 am
Although I have the greatest respect for individual opinions here, especially as regards 'taste' matters like programming, I really don't understand why these discussions occur.

Everyone has a favorite music genre, or a group of them, and it often seems like as if the poster can't understand why that genre isn't adopted by a station somewhere.....or why the one that tried it in West Undershirt, KS doesn't catch on everywhere. That's a simplistic evaluation of the discussion, but I think pretty accurate.

In a given day, I listen to bluegrass, 70's southern rock, elevator music, 60's pop, and more. To get most of that, I need to stream. No station is going to specialize in any of that as a format.

I won't insult the intelligence of everyone here, but I think we all agree that when an operator pays many millions for an allocation, they gotta get both a lot of ears, and those that want to sell to those ears. Almost all do it poorly, letting corporate programmers make the choices. There just are no more Rosalie Trombleys out there doing corporate programming. Add that with the horrible amount of spot loads needed to cover the nut, no one wants to listen. I know I don't.

I like specialty mac and cheese. If I bought a restaurant in Manhattan and paid $200 million for the building and business, I probably would would go broke very quickly selling mac and cheese....even if it was wonderful. Ya gotta produce what an awful lot of people will pay a lot for....and mac and cheese it not that.

The problem is, to carry that stupid analogy a little further.....people are no longer eating in such restaurants. Streaming is the new 'food' for those people.

Late last week, I was on a tiny little island in the Exhumas in the Bahamas. 120 people live there. There was music everywhere....ear buds, in the 3 restaurants, in the 2 stores, on porches, and in the golf carts running around. There are no radio stations to listen to, but no one cares because they have plenty of music from streaming and MP3s. It's a microcosm, but it's happening. They don't miss radio one tiny little bit.

Radio as we know it is at best very, very ill.....perhaps terminal.....some say dead. Beyond esoteric groups like the subscribers on this board, it's no longer relevant to young people. We look at ourselves and our history of listening and pretend it isn't so, but it is. Further, measurement of listeners is inaccurate for many, many reasons, but it's all the industry has so they pretend it is working. If it were not for short trips in cars where streaming preparations are impractical, no one under 40 would be listening at all.....except us.

I have had a great career thanks to radio, and all this kinda hurts, but it's the way it is.
Sadly, I can't disagree with most of this. |I
Thank you for expanding on my point. Trying to be strategic about formats at this stage of the game is pointless .


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

Mega Hertz
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Re: Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Post by Mega Hertz » Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:17 pm

Here is the most played song on the new EDM station

https://youtu.be/K-roesw8uf8


"Internet is no more like radio than intravenous feeding is like fine dining."
-TurkeyTop

Chrocket87
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Re: Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Post by Chrocket87 » Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:14 pm

A decade ago, EDM would’ve been a niche FM format, maybe best for a test run on a translator or somewhere like Ann Arbor to gauge interest. There was a ton of stuff crossing over to major formats, so it might have been an interesting proposition.

Today, EDM is a non-starter for commercial radio. It doesn’t have any track record of success just about anywhere.



billmich88888
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Re: Time Left for Select Radio Stations

Post by billmich88888 » Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:17 am

What was the movie where Sly Stallone wakes up from a deep sleep 50 years into the future? He meets a hot girl, offers to take her to dinner, and she breaks the news to him that "All restaurants are Taco Bell now" With respect to radio, I think we're almost there.
Demolition Man (1993) - Stallone, Snipes, and Bullock



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