Numbers

[innate-in-you]

I've said it before here...there hasn't been an upstart in this market in a long time that has taken down the incumbent. Because of said lack of detail. They come on, play the same shit as the other guy, don't promote, don't spend, hang around or 2 or 3 share (at best), don't research...and then in 2 years, they repeat the process. With the stories I've heard about the WLLZ launch in 1980, I'd love to know more about it. And that WRIF podcast explains it better. Today? Just get the few ad dollars you can, clear a national show no one gives a fuck about, flip, rinse, repeat.

In the late 1970's, Album Oriented Rock (AOR) was considered the most lucrative radio format, the market being young adult white males.

A Minnesota radio operation decided to expand into the Detroit market (in the day - a market bigger than M/SP, that's been reversed since).

However, Detroit had at least three FMs running AOR, perhaps four, if you include CJOM's AOR/hits hybrid.

The MN guys bought WBFG, a Christian station, that aspired to start a new Christian television network, to compete with the likes of PTL Club and 700 Club.

WBFG filed an application for the Channel 38 Mount Clemens allocation, but Adell Broadcasting was awarded the construction permit, signing on in June, 1989.

It seemed that WLLZ did well for a while, but within about two years, they would evolve to T40, and, soon after, to adult contemporary WCLS.

The 98.7 transmitter site on Lyndon still has the WBFG call sign on their smokestack, and 98.7 on the front.

[armchair pd]

I've said it before here...there hasn't been an upstart in this market in a long time that has taken down the incumbent. Because of said lack of detail. They come on, play the same shit as the other guy, don't promote, don't spend, hang around or 2 or 3 share (at best), don't research...and then in 2 years, they repeat the process. With the stories I've heard about the WLLZ launch in 1980, I'd love to know more about it. And that WRIF podcast explains it better. Today? Just get the few ad dollars you can, clear a national show no one gives a fuck about, flip, rinse, repeat.

It seemed that WLLZ did well for a while, but within about two years, they would evolve to T40, and, soon after, to adult contemporary WCLS.

The 98.7 transmitter site on Lyndon still has the WBFG call sign on their smokestack, and 98.7 on the front.

That was WABX. WLLZ became Smooth Jazz.

[Colonel Flagg]

I've said it before here...there hasn't been an upstart in this market in a long time that has taken down the incumbent. Because of said lack of detail. They come on, play the same shit as the other guy, don't promote, don't spend, hang around or 2 or 3 share (at best), don't research...and then in 2 years, they repeat the process. With the stories I've heard about the WLLZ launch in 1980, I'd love to know more about it. And that WRIF podcast explains it better. Today? Just get the few ad dollars you can, clear a national show no one gives a fuck about, flip, rinse, repeat.

It seemed that WLLZ did well for a while, but within about two years, they would evolve to T40, and, soon after, to adult contemporary WCLS.

The 98.7 transmitter site on Lyndon still has the WBFG call sign on their smokestack, and 98.7 on the front.

That was WABX. WLLZ became Smooth Jazz.

Yep. Great story. Wrong station, and the timeline is only off by about 10 years WABX became Class-FM in 1984-85. WLLZ flipped to Smooth Jazz in 1995.

And Bob Liggett didn't come from Minnesota Details, my rancid colleague...details...

[Mega Hertz]

Well now I feel cheated.

I was talking about from a "radio wars" standpoint. When Wheels came on and caused two market leaders to flinch and battled Riff for nearly 15 years. That shit wouldn't happen today.

[Mega Hertz]

To be fair, I think I knew where he was coming from lol

[MrTaterSalad]

I've said it before here...there hasn't been an upstart in this market in a long time that has taken down the incumbent.

Young Country 99.5/99.5 WYCD technically took down W4 Country in 1999 after being around for about 6 years. I don't really know how much of that was because WYCD was legitimately out billing W4, because they weren't beating them in the ratings and how much of it was just the sheer stupidity of Clear Channel to flip 106.7 to Alice. It seems like Clear Channel just picked a dial to throw in the towel on because they wanted the Alice format somewhere and they gave up on W4, inspite of its better ratings over WYCD.

[Mega Hertz]

I've said it before here...there hasn't been an upstart in this market in a long time that has taken down the incumbent.

Young Country 99.5/99.5 WYCD technically took down W4 Country in 1999 after being around for about 6 years. I don't really know how much of that was because WYCD was legitimately out billing W4, because they weren't beating them in the ratings and how much of it was just the sheer stupidity of Clear Channel to flip 106.7 to Alice. It seems like Clear Channel just picked a dial to throw in the towel on because they wanted the Alice format somewhere and they gave up on W4, inspite of its better ratings over WYCD.

I could count that, but even then, it's been over 20 years. And that was six years of YCD giving it all they had. Plus, CC came in and started fucking with it. When you think of all the flips and tweaks over those 20 years, and none of them have stuck, that tells you all you need to know about radio today.

[MWmetalhead]

WYCD was winning in A25-54 but not by a big margin. Both stations had so-so ratings. W4 sounded like a dead station the summer before the flip, and 99.5 was a poorly programmed mess with some of the worst imaging I've heard.

By 2001, 99.5 was sounding much better.

[Colonel Flagg]

Well now I feel cheated.

I was talking about from a "radio wars" standpoint. When Wheels came on and caused two market leaders to flinch and battled Riff for nearly 15 years. That shit wouldn't happen today.

That post, confusing 98.7 and 99.5 was so far off the rails, I couldn't resist.

Radio wars were a blast. I was around...Detroit, Lansing, Orlando, just to name a few. You have to remember, there were a lot more players back then. Hell, 98.7 and 99.5 were both standalone stations. Back then, when you declared war, you were on your own. You had to get it right. You didn't have a half dozen other stations down the hall to cover your behind. Wheels took an irrelevant, mostly unknown frequency to do this, which makes the story even more intriguing. And challenging. It was all launched at the old Lyndon St transmitter site/studios initially, and by a bunch of guys from out of town...that's a big risk in a provincial place like metro Detroit.

The late Bob Liggett lost the battle with WCLS. He often reflected on that. I think he made more bank on building the big tower at 10 Mile & Greenfield and inviting other stations to hop on it, than he did on WCLS. We had a Class-FM in Orlando too. Polished, well executed station, similar mediocre results.

[CK-722]

Bob Liggett was from Utica, MI and graduated from Utica High School circa 1960, and lived in a subdivision behind the Big Boy Restaurant at Van Dyke and 21 Mile Rd, which was closed and torn down and replaced by a small shopping center. Around 1968, he was the Program Director for Metrocom, which owned such stations as WGMZ 107.9 Flint, where he was a disk jockey as Bob Layne at the FMBassy at Court and Stevens, for about a year before Beck Ross Communications bought it. Both Metrocom and Beck Ross also owned stations on Long Island, WPAC and WPAC-FM 1580/106.1 Patchogue and WHRF and WHRF-FM 1570/103.9 Riverhead, serving the exclusive Hamptons. WPAC-FM was sold to Beck Ross and they changed it to WBLI. So he was involved in Long Island radio, but not Minnesota to my knowledge. WGLI 1290 Babylon, which was put off the air for WADO 1280 to increase to 50000 watts. At the time Liggett was the Corporate PD for Metrocom, WADO was owned by Bartell (WOKY, WDRQ, KCBQ, etc.).

[Colonel Flagg]

Wheels was launched by Doubleday. I can't connect Doubleday to Minnesota either. Doubleday's HQ was in New York. I can't recall where WLLZ's first PD, John Larson came from...maybe that's the Minnesota connection. All of this folderol is giving me a headache.

[CK-722]

All of this folderol is giving me a headache.

Here's a link to more "folderol" than you can digest in a lifetime. And plenty to peruse during the never-ending lockdowns. Enjoy. Happy Holidays!

https://worldradiohistory.com

[CK-722]

Here's a link to an article from Billboard in 1968 by the late Bob Liggett, aka Bob Layne, called "FM Can Be Successful".

https://books.google.com/books?id=qgoEA ... rd&f=false