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WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
radioandtventhusiast
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Re: WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Post by radioandtventhusiast » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:16 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:42 am
I think 93.1 would be within a point of WYCD on a consistent basis if it were to invest in a decent LOCAL morning show. From time to time, 93.1 would even have a fighting chance of tying WYCD.

Run Ty Bentli on the HD2, and get his lame ass off the main channel.
I think 93.1 would get better ratings if they launched a local morning and night show. I think they should go for name recognition for mornings, and maybe put former 99.5 morning host, Dr. Don, in that timeslot. Nights could be used for a younger jock. I don't really mind a syndicated overnight jock, though. But since it's Cumulus,
I unfortunately don't see any of these things happening.

Regarding Ty, is he any better than Blair Garner was? I know you said Blair was totally bland and boring.



radioandtventhusiast
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Re: WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Post by radioandtventhusiast » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:24 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:09 pm
So, you think there's a music format out there that would command stronger ratings with the same size budget?

BTW, I'm not defending WDRQ/Nash-FM's small budget. To the contrary. I've advocated for YEARS for the station to go 100% local in morning drive.

I continue to believe that the station would earn bigger ratings and command a greater share of ad spending, too, if it were to go 100% local in mornings - the only caveat being that any local show better be GOOD, not a pile of garbage like what 106.7 The Fox featured.

Tater Salad wants the station to go All Sports, if I remember correctly. Such a format move would be insanely stupid, in my view.
I think 93.1 could possibly get a 3.5 share if they picked a good local morning host. I know 106.7 the Fox's morning show was just awful.

I don't see All Sports happening anytime soon, especially since Detroit Sports 105.1 was a big failure.



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Re: WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Post by Mega Hertz » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:18 pm

Colonel Flagg wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:09 pm
Mega Hertz wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:18 am
MWmetalhead wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:41 am
There's no reason to pull the plug on Nash FM.

For as low budget as that station is, a 2.9 share is very respectable.

There is no other music format where a 2.9 share can be achieved with as small a budget....NONE!!! The station spends almost NO money on programming morning drive, evenings or overnights.

Remember, Doug FM toward the end was only achieving shares in the low 2's. WDRQ as a stale sounding CHR/Pop station was in that ballpark, too. 98.7 Damp Radio with a 100% local airstaff and very young demos (too young) was in the mid 2's.

To me, the argument should NOT be whether or not 93.1 stays Country. Instead, the question should be whether or not additional investment should be made in on-air programming to try to raise the station's stature.
Yep. Corporate radio mindset..."Don't 'win', just pull a couple shares from the other guy".
Mega, I agree. I come from the "play to win" era. We never had "flanker" stations back then, purely designed to nip at the competition's heels. The excuses outlined above are laughable. Sometimes, I fear that MW is being held against his will by Gary Berkowitz or Walt Sabo. :lol
Of course, where you come from, each station in town probably had one owner, instead of the 5 FM/2 AM (or whatever it is) deal we have now and have had for 20 years.

I think you told it here, but I read Lee Arnold tell it for himself on Facebook, also. When he took over PD duties at LLZ in the mid 80s, he landed near the Riff studios and yelled for them to surrender, and said "this is war!" The rock radio wars! Your guys were hitting the streets, busting ass to try and make the best mix of music, new adds, better adds, just trying to kick the shit out of and embarrass the guy up the dial. Imagine if Lee had come in and said, "We just hope to take a share or two away from WRIF, we're gonna save money where we can, automate overnights, syndicated morning show, and we hope to take a few shares from them". The last even SEMI battle I remember was DRQ vs. 955. Ever since then, it's just been "let's try this format with the national playlist, tracked jocks and a dick/dork/darling morning show from Dallas and see what sticks".


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Mega Hertz
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Re: WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Post by Mega Hertz » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:21 pm

radioandtventhusiast wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:24 pm
MWmetalhead wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:09 pm
So, you think there's a music format out there that would command stronger ratings with the same size budget?

BTW, I'm not defending WDRQ/Nash-FM's small budget. To the contrary. I've advocated for YEARS for the station to go 100% local in morning drive.

I continue to believe that the station would earn bigger ratings and command a greater share of ad spending, too, if it were to go 100% local in mornings - the only caveat being that any local show better be GOOD, not a pile of garbage like what 106.7 The Fox featured.

Tater Salad wants the station to go All Sports, if I remember correctly. Such a format move would be insanely stupid, in my view.
I think 93.1 could possibly get a 3.5 share if they picked a good local morning host. I know 106.7 the Fox's morning show was just awful.

I don't see All Sports happening anytime soon, especially since Detroit Sports 105.1 was a big failure.
Add to that Cumulus not having two nickels to rub together and looking to divest, and you won't get so much as a score update on that station.

I'd also like to add that, if I was a betting man, and NASH wasn't a nationally- branded format, I'd bet that the country format would have been gone before the 2016 election.


"Internet is no more like radio than intravenous feeding is like fine dining."
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armchair pd
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Re: WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Post by armchair pd » Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:47 am

radioandtventhusiast wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:16 pm
MWmetalhead wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:42 am
I think 93.1 would be within a point of WYCD on a consistent basis if it were to invest in a decent LOCAL morning show. From time to time, 93.1 would even have a fighting chance of tying WYCD.

Run Ty Bentli on the HD2, and get his lame ass off the main channel.
I think 93.1 would get better ratings if they launched a local morning and night show. I think they should go for name recognition for mornings, and maybe put former 99.5 morning host, Dr. Don, in that timeslot.
Nope.
Nash isn't a heritage or heritage sounding station. If they want to win, enough retreads. They tried that and bombed. With respect to Doc, who I liked, the GenX-Z audience barley or doesn't remember who he is.
Put Broadway in mornings and find a decent PM driver and market the damn thing a bit, and you're in business to at least make a run at YCD.
Nights who honestly cares.
Ad buys are 6a-7p. Thats what you need to win.



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Re: WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:11 am

Agreed!

Broadway has plenty of experience doing morning drive, and in fact, his most recent gig prior to joining WDRQ was morning drive at Y108 in Pittsburgh.

The nighttime show on 93.1 is fine. Keep it music intensive, and there'll be no issue.
Regarding Ty, is he any better than Blair Garner was? I know you said Blair was totally bland and boring.
You summed up my opinion of Blair Garner perfectly as far as his morning drive performance is concerned. Although, I don't think his horrible performance in A.M. Drive is completely his fault. I suspect some dopey corporate programmers exerted a lot of control over that daypart. Garner sounds a lot more relaxed and more personable in overnights.

Is Ty Bentli any better? Sure, but there are still pronounced weaknesses. His show has a very disjointed feel to it. I don't understand the purpose of running a syndicated show that spends no more than 10 minutes an hour on mic! Makes his "show" come across as filler as opposed to the star of that daypart. What little content *is* offered is geared toward the female audience, it seems. I think it's a mistake to back yourself into that corner if you are a country station.


Lori Bennett and Bob Walker have turned WLAV from an iconic classic rock station into a ratings boondoggle. Sad.

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Re: WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Post by Y M Ionhere » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:53 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:18 pm
How many country stations do you think this market needs?
Two, which is precisely what it has now (not counting "fringe" signals that are technically "in the market" such as WSAQ Port Huron).
Right now, country is popular because it has crossover appeal with pop music. I dont think it does well at all with hip hop audiences, and with younger demos, that seems to be the most stable format locally.
WYCD has long earned good to even sensational numbers with A18-34 listeners. Before WDRQ went country, WYCD at times was #1 in Adults 18-34 and was consistently in the top three.
We don't have great rock programming.
Compared to other metro areas that are in the top 25 in population, the rock radio offerings in Detroit are actually quite good. Detroit beats Chicago, New York, Washington, Atlanta, Miami, Los Angeles, Houston, and San Francisco in that department by leaps and bounds.
Pop stations sound more like rap.
I disagree. Is there some crossover? Of course. But if you listen to an hour's worth of music on WKQI and compare it to an hour's worth of music on either WJLB or WGPR, there are very noticeable differences.

Perhaps your real complaint pertains to the lack of rock crossover product on CHR/Pop radio these days.

There is plenty of pure play "pop" music that is neither hip-hop or rock.

Maybe Im just getting old, but so much of the music on "pop" stations sound like they are rooted in hip hop. The rythyms, beats, vocals, etc.
Ive always considered 96.3 to be "pop", but a few minutes ago they were playing Eminem.

On paper, we have about 4 rock stations. In reality, we have 2 that are technically classic rock, 1 active rock, and 89X...which doesnt seem to know what it is anymore.

im really surprised LA is so bad. That area was the biggest hotbed or rock music. Thats where musicians relocated to hit it big. What happened?



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Re: WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Post by Colonel Flagg » Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:03 pm

Y M Ionhere wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:53 am
MWmetalhead wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:18 pm
How many country stations do you think this market needs?
Two, which is precisely what it has now (not counting "fringe" signals that are technically "in the market" such as WSAQ Port Huron).
Right now, country is popular because it has crossover appeal with pop music. I dont think it does well at all with hip hop audiences, and with younger demos, that seems to be the most stable format locally.
WYCD has long earned good to even sensational numbers with A18-34 listeners. Before WDRQ went country, WYCD at times was #1 in Adults 18-34 and was consistently in the top three.
We don't have great rock programming.
Compared to other metro areas that are in the top 25 in population, the rock radio offerings in Detroit are actually quite good. Detroit beats Chicago, New York, Washington, Atlanta, Miami, Los Angeles, Houston, and San Francisco in that department by leaps and bounds.
Pop stations sound more like rap.
I disagree. Is there some crossover? Of course. But if you listen to an hour's worth of music on WKQI and compare it to an hour's worth of music on either WJLB or WGPR, there are very noticeable differences.

Perhaps your real complaint pertains to the lack of rock crossover product on CHR/Pop radio these days.

There is plenty of pure play "pop" music that is neither hip-hop or rock.

Maybe Im just getting old, but so much of the music on "pop" stations sound like they are rooted in hip hop. The rythyms, beats, vocals, etc.
Ive always considered 96.3 to be "pop", but a few minutes ago they were playing Eminem.

On paper, we have about 4 rock stations. In reality, we have 2 that are technically classic rock, 1 active rock, and 89X...which doesnt seem to know what it is anymore.

im really surprised LA is so bad. That area was the biggest hotbed or rock music. Thats where musicians relocated to hit it big. What happened?
They all moved to Nashville. The aging rock stars in Nashville now outnumber the country stars.


"Nobody can get the truth out of me because even I don't know what it is. I keep myself in a constant state of utter confusion."

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Re: WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Post by Deleted User 14990 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:19 am

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Last edited by Deleted User 14990 on Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:34 am

The last even SEMI battle I remember was DRQ vs. 955.
That one is remembered only because one station would often mention the other station - either directly on indirectly - on the air.

However, I would contend 96.3 WDVD vs. 100.3 WNIC in the late 00's to early 10's is every bit as noteworthy simply because of the severe ratings damage WDVD inflicted on WNIC.

Slumping ratings - thanks to WDVD - even spurred WNIC to ditch its longtime identity for a period of time! *That* is very noteworthy.

Changes in the programming landscape eventually worked to WNIC's advantage, as Greater Media ran 105.1 into the ground and Cumulus ran Doug FM 93.1 into the ground (while also making some unwise moves at 96.3). Many former listeners of those two stations gravitated to WNIC, aided by wise playlist changes enacted by WNIC.

In the early to mid 00's, 100.3 WNIC vs. Magic 105.1 (right after Jim Harper jumped ship) was an interesting albeit seemingly friendly battle.

And last but not least - how can we forget Team 1270 / AM 1270 "The Sports Station" versus 1130 WDFN? That one was rather testy at times.


Lori Bennett and Bob Walker have turned WLAV from an iconic classic rock station into a ratings boondoggle. Sad.

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Re: WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Post by Ben Zonia » Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:56 am

Funny you should mention Nashville. Cumulus' WWTN Supertalk 99.7 has very good local hosts. The station has been doing quite well. One host is Michael DelGiorno, who is on from 9 to Noon CST, and is much better than the vast majority of local hosts nationwide.

For those who don't remember, Michael's father is Bob Dell from WTAC 600 (where he promoted Rock Concerts at Mount Holly in the 1960s) and WOWO 1190 Ft. Wayne, then used his given name DelGiorno when he moved to Chicago on WIND 560 and WKQX 101.1, and retired from WWL 870 New Orleans. (Peter Cavanaugh took over concert promotion when Bob Dell left WTAC 600 in 1968, and changed the venue to Sherwood Forest and then moved to Cumulus' WWCK-FM 105.5 when AM Rock fell apart.)

They should have Michael do several Cumulus stations like some of the other Cumulus hosts, on WJR, WWCK Supertalk 1570, WLS (which he talks about growing up listening to all the time), and other markets where he grew up, like Ft. Wayne and New Orleans.


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radioandtventhusiast
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Re: WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Post by radioandtventhusiast » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:12 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:11 am
Agreed!

Broadway has plenty of experience doing morning drive, and in fact, his most recent gig prior to joining WDRQ was morning drive at Y108 in Pittsburgh.

The nighttime show on 93.1 is fine. Keep it music intensive, and there'll be no issue.
Regarding Ty, is he any better than Blair Garner was? I know you said Blair was totally bland and boring.

You summed up my opinion of Blair Garner perfectly as far as his morning drive performance is concerned. Although, I don't think his horrible performance in A.M. Drive is completely his fault. I suspect some dopey corporate programmers exerted a lot of control over that daypart. Garner sounds a lot more relaxed and more personable in overnights.

Is Ty Bentli any better? Sure, but there are still pronounced weaknesses. His show has a very disjointed feel to it. I don't understand the purpose of running a syndicated show that spends no more than 10 minutes an hour on mic! Makes his "show" come across as filler as opposed to the star of that daypart. What little content *is* offered is geared toward the female audience, it seems. I think it's a mistake to back yourself into that corner if you are a country station.
I used to listen to After Midnight a few times and thought he was a decent jock. He does have many years of country radio experience and seems to know so much about the genre. Same thing with Shawn Parr on Nash Nights Live. Agreed it was probably not Blair's fault regarding his performance in mornings.



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Re: WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Post by tivoking » Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:49 pm

Smartphones only have FM radio tuners, if they even have that. I think the Samsung Galaxy might be one of the few that do. AM radio sucks in the home nowadays with all of the interference, from Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, and the Lions suck on WJR, so no one listens.



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Re: WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Post by MWmetalhead » Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:53 pm

Shawn Parr and Nash Nights Taped both stunk.


Lori Bennett and Bob Walker have turned WLAV from an iconic classic rock station into a ratings boondoggle. Sad.

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Colonel Flagg
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Re: WJR shits the bed again...this time with a 2.2 share!

Post by Colonel Flagg » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:26 pm

Ben Zonia wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:56 am
Funny you should mention Nashville. Cumulus' WWTN Supertalk 99.7 has very good local hosts. The station has been doing quite well. One host is Michael DelGiorno, who is on from 9 to Noon CST, and is much better than the vast majority of local hosts nationwide.

For those who don't remember, Michael's father is Bob Dell from WTAC 600 (where he promoted Rock Concerts at Mount Holly in the 1960s) and WOWO 1190 Ft. Wayne, then used his given name DelGiorno when he moved to Chicago on WIND 560 and WKQX 101.1, and retired from WWL 870 New Orleans. (Peter Cavanaugh took over concert promotion when Bob Dell left WTAC 600 in 1968, and changed the venue to Sherwood Forest and then moved to Cumulus' WWCK-FM 105.5 when AM Rock fell apart.)

They should have Michael do several Cumulus stations like some of the other Cumulus hosts, on WJR, WWCK Supertalk 1570, WLS (which he talks about growing up listening to all the time), and other markets where he grew up, like Ft. Wayne and New Orleans.
Phil Valentine from WWTN (also carried on WWCK Flint) would be a big improvement for afternoons on WJR.


"Nobody can get the truth out of me because even I don't know what it is. I keep myself in a constant state of utter confusion."

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