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WJBK signal interference?

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
km1125
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:09 pm

WJBK signal interference?

Post by km1125 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:50 pm

I've been noticing lately that we're seeing a lot of periodic tiling on FOX2. Signal seems fine for a while, then there will be a few minutes of intermittent tiling and loss of audio, then it will be OK for a bit. Noticing the same thing at sites on the west side (Northville) as well as in St Clair Shores. Don't see it on any of the other local channels.

The antennas at both locations aren't the greatest, but I would think if it was just a signal level thing that I'd see periodic issues on some of the other channels too. Seems to really be only on FOX2 that we regularly see this.

I'm wondering if there could be other things causing interference, that, coupled with a weaker receive signal, might be causing most of the issue.

Anyone else having more of an issue getting reliable a stream on FOX2 than the other channels?



innate-in-you
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Re: WJBK signal interference?

Post by innate-in-you » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:52 pm

km1125 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:50 pm
I've been noticing lately that we're seeing a lot of periodic tiling on FOX2. Signal seems fine for a while, then there will be a few minutes of intermittent tiling and loss of audio, then it will be OK for a bit. Noticing the same thing at sites on the west side (Northville) as well as in St Clair Shores. Don't see it on any of the other local channels.

The antennas at both locations aren't the greatest, but I would think if it was just a signal level thing that I'd see periodic issues on some of the other channels too. Seems to really be only on FOX2 that we regularly see this.

I'm wondering if there could be other things causing interference, that, coupled with a weaker receive signal, might be causing most of the issue.

Anyone else having more of an issue getting reliable a stream on FOX2 than the other channels?
Were their any thunderstorms about?

Are you at a significant distance from the WJBK transmitter?

WJBK is the only full-service station on the American side with a VHF (high) transmitter, causing it to be more susceptible to RFI caused by lightning.

Toledo has a station on Low-VHF RF channel 5. It's even more vulnerable to lightning interference.



SixPlusOne
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Re: WJBK signal interference?

Post by SixPlusOne » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:05 am

km1125 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:50 pm
I've been noticing lately that we're seeing a lot of periodic tiling on FOX2. Signal seems fine for a while, then there will be a few minutes of intermittent tiling and loss of audio, then it will be OK for a bit. I'm wondering if there could be other things causing interference, that, coupled with a weaker receive signal, might be causing most of the issue.
As our local stations transition to their newly assigned channel and frequency it will be necessary for them to side-mount their transmitting antenna on one side of their tower. There may be a temporary power reduction as well. They will do this so as to install the new antenna of the new channel on the top of the tower. I witnessed this myself when I was still working at 7 during the first antenna swap. That was several years ago and now there will be still another antenna swap. It should be noted that this is not a one day job. Therefore don't be surprised if and when a local channel's signal is affected for a short time as the temporary side mount can have an effect in some places of the overall coverage area.



innate-in-you
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Re: WJBK signal interference?

Post by innate-in-you » Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:07 pm

True, though in this case, I believe WJBK is the only TV facility on that tower (with the possible exception of the transitional antenna that is likely still in place as an auxiliary backup).

WJBK has been on RF 7 since the move from channel 58 to 7 in 2009.
I seriously doubt they entered the auction to move to Low VHF or partner with another station for a transmitter share.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: WJBK signal interference?

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:21 pm

Regardless of a physical channel move or not, won't the transition to ATSC 3.0 require full power stations to replace their transmitting antennas?

I think WJBK's issues are likely due to technical difficulties arising from equipment malfunction. During Judge Judy, I've seen multiple instances of video & audio cutting out for a couple seconds at a time over the past week or two...and that's while watching WJBK on Comcast.


Lori Bennett and Bob Walker have turned WLAV from an iconic classic rock station into a ratings boondoggle. Sad.

km1125
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Re: WJBK signal interference?

Post by km1125 » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:15 am

I wasn't thinking about them being the only VHF anymore. However, 9.1 is also on VHF, so I'm going to see if I can see any similarities with the two in terms of the issue.

I was watching the other day when it was quite bad, and there appears to be a fairly consistent pattern. It's clear for about 16-20 seconds, then has about a 4-7 second period of tiling and dropping audio.

I'll check 9.1 and see if it's similar. I don't get that currently on one of the sets due to the difference of angle to the station compared to 2.1, but at the other location they both come off the same antenna.



innate-in-you
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Re: WJBK signal interference?

Post by innate-in-you » Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:54 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:21 pm
Regardless of a physical channel move or not, won't the transition to ATSC 3.0 require full power stations to replace their transmitting antennas?
<snip>
No.
WJBK will still be using its antenna to radiate from 174-180 MHz, only instead of transmitting a single pilot signal at the bottom of its band, it will be transmitting thousands of carriers evenly spaced and evenly powered throughout its 6MHz passband - each carrier with a far slower data rate, greatly reducing the effects of multipath interference.

That is, IF ATSC 3.0 actually happens at all. The spectrum auction and broadcast consolidation have thrown a monkey wrench into the works.

It won't be possible to make a significant change without compromises.

One possibility would be cramming all the .1 HD channels onto a few 3.0 transmitters, and packing SD version copies onto all the other facilities, which could also reduce the quality of subchannels, and/or cause the deletion of many subchannels.

They should have considered placing SD .1 channels above Channel 37 and ATSC 3.0 operation below Channel 37.

Then, after a year or so, distributing ATSC 3.0 receivers and dropping the ATSC 1.0 broadcasts.

Without any incentive to broadcast the new system to televisions that aren't being made to receivers that can't receive the new signal, it can't really work.

Sure, a small number of stations, especially PBS stations, may give it a try, but it won't really work in the long run.

If they can't find a way to broadcast in both standards at the same time (Perhaps 3.0 in the 2GHz spectrum, then swapping the bands - and moving 3.0 to VHF/UHF, then dropping 1.0 later), ATSC 3.0 will probably NEVER HAPPEN.



wtfdetroit
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Re: WJBK signal interference?

Post by wtfdetroit » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:45 pm

I’ve noticed wjbk is not coming in that great in Ferndale. It’s been acting up the last 6 weeks or so.



innate-in-you
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Re: WJBK signal interference?

Post by innate-in-you » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:48 pm

wtfdetroit wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:45 pm
I’ve noticed wjbk is not coming in that great in Ferndale. It’s been acting up the last 6 weeks or so.
That really is a WTF, wtf!

Their transmitter is at their office/studio site, 9 Mile/Southfield Fwy.

Their signal should be atomic-bomb-proof in Ferndale.



wtfdetroit
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Re: WJBK signal interference?

Post by wtfdetroit » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:54 am

It is breaking up a lot lately which is puzzling since I’m so close.



F-Squared
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Re: WJBK signal interference?

Post by F-Squared » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:37 am

This has to be some sort of technical difficulty. WJBK isn't supposed to be moving to any other RF channel.

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szmigiel
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Re: WJBK signal interference?

Post by szmigiel » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:39 pm

One morning I had long black out of weak signal from WJBK, which I did find odd because it is the most solid signal I get in Shelby Twp. On Tuesday night I also had long black out of WKBD during the primetime shows, 50.1-.4 were all blank, but the rest of the channels seemed fine. I do have issues with Multi-path interference at my location, but that causes skips and jumps not minutes of weak signal.



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