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Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
szmigiel
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Re: Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Post by szmigiel » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:20 am

The only time I tune to AM is when I am driving around on the weekend and want to listen to a game I would rather be watching than have to be driving. I never even tune in to AM and scan around to see what is there.

WLLZ has become just another preset on my radio, no better than 89X, WCSX, or WRIF. I think the Memorial Day 500 sealed it for me, 500 songs that were either overplayed, stale, or meh. When driving with the wife the Breeze will normally stay on in the car since it is her favorite, and chance of me finding something I really want to listen to on the 4 rock stations is so slim. I spent a lot of time in Chicago for work in June, and it maybe just because it was a change of pace, but I enjoyed listening to Q101 while there.



armchair pd
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Re: Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Post by armchair pd » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:36 am

RadioRat wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:07 pm
In 96.3's case, it's a mostly voicetracked station in the wrong format.

They only track nights.
They're also sounding more like a hot ac again. The Goo Goo Dolls, Matchbox 20, Alanis type '90's songs seem to be back. Reaction to losings some P2's to The Breeze maybe?



MrTaterSalad
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Re: Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Post by MrTaterSalad » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:39 am

We are constantly told by the far right in this country that they are the silent majority and that here in Michigan, Trump is sure to win again. Well, if they are a majority, they sure aren't tuning into WJR and Pills Limbaugh or No Degree Hannity all that often.



RadioRat
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Re: Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Post by RadioRat » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:31 pm

MrTaterSalad wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:39 am
We are constantly told by the far right in this country that they are the silent majority and that here in Michigan, Trump is sure to win again. Well, if they are a majority, they sure aren't tuning into WJR and Pills Limbaugh or No Degree Hannity all that often.
This argument is so tired. Firstly, Limbaugh's ratings are fine. For most of the last 15 years, WWJ beat WJR in every daypart, except for Limbaugh and WJR outdrew them in the books. WJR's problems started a long time ago but Limbaugh was pulling something close to a 10 share at the beginning of the Obama Administration and his first term which masked it. JR"s problems are in the morning. They've become a station where people tune in at noon for Rush and leave when he's done. Also, Hannity hasn't been on WJR for 5 years now, maybe more. I would suggest knowing the lineup of the station you're bashing. You may have a degree but you didn't use a lot of brain cells for your post.

Looking at other stations, classic rock is mostly male, white and middle aged+...you can go look at how that demographic votes. It's Republican by double digit percentages, rolling towards 2-1 in the last election. It's doing okay in Detroit. Country leans conservative too, at least the 99.5 audience. Nash seems willing to appeal to women 18-34 but it is bringing in half the ratings. The Ticket is mostly male which, once again, is solidly Republican, and their ratings have held up amazing considering the poor quality of the teams on the field. WWJ probably leans right, though not in the numbers of JR. WNIC and WOMC are probably "battleground" stations as far as politics goes, no winner either way with NIC trending left a tad over the past decade. Suburban women have moved that way as rural women have moved in the other direction. It's the college influence but, as I pointed out earlier, most college degree holders dramatically overvalue the worth of their degree so I wouldn't use that as an opportunity to say, "See, Democrats are smart!" 2 out of 3 degree holders regret college today. The lazy faux intellectual attacks on the country, western culture, and the people who have helped build it reasonably lead to cynicism and pessimism, not a happy life. The cost is outrageous for the value provided and it takes people until old age to pay it off. It has also created a dependent class of people who have to cling to the paper to try to get ahead and they adopt the prevailing politics it represents. FWIW, I graduated with honors from college. I won't be sending my kids.

On the other side, CHR and Hot AC are hurting, with rap being generally weak at the moment. Remember when JLB was number one in the market? Their numbers are almost as bad as JR's. Mix 92 and The Bounce are doing okay for themselves and have a left-heavy audience. Overall, Detroit radio probably leans right but it's close, much like the state's politics as a whole.



Mr.Transistor
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Re: Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Post by Mr.Transistor » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:51 pm

MrTaterSalad wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:39 am
We are constantly told by the far right in this country that they are the silent majority and that here in Michigan, Trump is sure to win again. Well, if they are a majority, they sure aren't tuning into WJR and Pills Limbaugh or No Degree Hannity all that often.
Well FWIW we were constantly told that Trump has no shot to win. Right now the "unbiased" media is again telling us that Trump is behind. So why don't you take your anti conservative view and shove up your keester. Also, get your programming right before you insert foot into mouth.



Y M Ionhere
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Re: Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Post by Y M Ionhere » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:49 pm

RadioRat wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:31 pm
MrTaterSalad wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:39 am
We are constantly told by the far right in this country that they are the silent majority and that here in Michigan, Trump is sure to win again. Well, if they are a majority, they sure aren't tuning into WJR and Pills Limbaugh or No Degree Hannity all that often.
This argument is so tired. Firstly, Limbaugh's ratings are fine. For most of the last 15 years, WWJ beat WJR in every daypart, except for Limbaugh and WJR outdrew them in the books. WJR's problems started a long time ago but Limbaugh was pulling something close to a 10 share at the beginning of the Obama Administration and his first term which masked it. JR"s problems are in the morning. They've become a station where people tune in at noon for Rush and leave when he's done. Also, Hannity hasn't been on WJR for 5 years now, maybe more. I would suggest knowing the lineup of the station you're bashing. You may have a degree but you didn't use a lot of brain cells for your post.

Looking at other stations, classic rock is mostly male, white and middle aged+...you can go look at how that demographic votes. It's Republican by double digit percentages, rolling towards 2-1 in the last election. It's doing okay in Detroit. Country leans conservative too, at least the 99.5 audience. Nash seems willing to appeal to women 18-34 but it is bringing in half the ratings. The Ticket is mostly male which, once again, is solidly Republican, and their ratings have held up amazing considering the poor quality of the teams on the field. WWJ probably leans right, though not in the numbers of JR. WNIC and WOMC are probably "battleground" stations as far as politics goes, no winner either way with NIC trending left a tad over the past decade. Suburban women have moved that way as rural women have moved in the other direction. It's the college influence but, as I pointed out earlier, most college degree holders dramatically overvalue the worth of their degree so I wouldn't use that as an opportunity to say, "See, Democrats are smart!" 2 out of 3 degree holders regret college today. The lazy faux intellectual attacks on the country, western culture, and the people who have helped build it reasonably lead to cynicism and pessimism, not a happy life. The cost is outrageous for the value provided and it takes people until old age to pay it off. It has also created a dependent class of people who have to cling to the paper to try to get ahead and they adopt the prevailing politics it represents. FWIW, I graduated with honors from college. I won't be sending my kids.

On the other side, CHR and Hot AC are hurting, with rap being generally weak at the moment. Remember when JLB was number one in the market? Their numbers are almost as bad as JR's. Mix 92 and The Bounce are doing okay for themselves and have a left-heavy audience. Overall, Detroit radio probably leans right but it's close, much like the state's politics as a whole.
This is one of the most well-thought-out, intelligent analysis ive read. You are using specific, rational and thought provoking points to make a case to a blatant attack from an angry leftist. Im not real far to the right, so I think this contrast is a good opportunity for me to ask: why would I want to be on that side and how can I respect that side when its demonstrating nothing but ad-hominen attacks and character assualts?
And, i dont care about degrees. I care about what you can do. A degree tells me you can take tests and do bookwork. Plenty of people have degrees and cant unclog a damn toilet. They need to call people without degrees to fix all their crap. Ive heard about plenty of professors who rambled intellectually for an hour but couldnt even work the projector. I have 500× more respect for the undegreed plumber and roofer that actually use their skills all day than someone boasting about their ancient history or political science degree and cant even shovel their driveway in the winter.
Hannity may not have a degree and may get annoying by saying the same thing all day every day, but he worked his way to the top, and I respect him for that. Started out small, worked side jobs, then gradually became a big time broadcaster. The fact he worked his way to being a millionaire with no degree and some snooty professor makes $50k talking about Egyptian Art and thinking it makes him superior sort of proves my point.



learn to fly
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Re: Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Post by learn to fly » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:32 pm

If I recall, the arbitron, now nielson methodology often left a lot to be desired and could generate such swings with stations highly targeted. Now I am old and out of the business now, but could there have been a diary dump or incentive given to get 6-34 year olds to return said diary or whatever reporting they do? Is it a people meter now? Still a struggle with young demos i would guess.



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Myron Falwell
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Re: Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Post by Myron Falwell » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:24 pm

MrTaterSalad wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:39 am
We are constantly told by the far right in this country that they are the silent majority and that here in Michigan, Trump is sure to win again. Well, if they are a majority, they sure aren't tuning into WJR and Pills Limbaugh or No Degree Hannity all that often.
Talk radio is being killed by 1,000 papercuts. The biggest one isn't even political, it's that the youngest demographics aren't even bothering to tune into AM for any reason whatsoever. The audience is literally starting to die off.

Of course the format is dominated by conservative talk. It's predictable, paint-by-numbers and rote. Rush may still command ratings on his heritage stations, but it's nowhere near what he had commanded in the past. He's undergone multiple affiliate downgrades in the past few years, and is expected to be yanked off of KOA in Denver in favor of a co-owned upstart third-tier talker next week. But he's also keeping WLS 890 from falling into outright oblivion.

All that being said, younger conservatives are not going to listen to AM talk radio, they're going to be on social media or watch conservative opinion shows on cable TV. Hannity knows full well that way more people watch his cable show than listen to his radio show, and has for years, only the disparity is far more pronounced today.

tl,dr: don't try to extrapolate the dire straits talk radio is in for anything else. The changing media landscape has seriously undermined whatever influence it did have on the body politic.
Last edited by Myron Falwell on Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.



non-anon bob
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Re: Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Post by non-anon bob » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:25 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:08 am
106.7 Detroit's Wheels is the BEST of the 3 rock stations...Much better variety of Classic Rock than CSX or Riff...Lesinski, if you want "non-stale" rock, 89X is your station. Wheels is going to have an especially good month in August, with substantial Dream Cruise promos and tie-ins, and a strong presence at the Cruise itself. WHY would ANY radio fan prefer CSX's Dahmer and JT over LLZ's Doc and Casey???
106.7 Fake Wheels has the smallest playlist between WRIF, WCSX and itself.

If you love hearing 80's butt rock, a few 70's classics, and overplayed hits from the 90's all mashed together (along with an unusually high dose of mid 90's era Metallica) - it's the station of choice.

You think Casey is a good air talent? Are you insane?!?!
1. YES, Wheels IS my station of choice!
2. YES, Casey IS a good (not great) air talent (much more knowledgeable about artists and music than Dahmer and/or JT! ………………………………………...and 3. YES, I WAS insane for the 20 years that I was married to my 2 ex-wives (1972-92)...but Detroit radio has restored my sanity! :lol


...and NOW, Ladies & Gentlemen...The Next Poster!
...CKLW, the Motor City...

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Myron Falwell
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Re: Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Post by Myron Falwell » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:37 pm

learn to fly wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:32 pm
If I recall, the arbitron, now nielson methodology often left a lot to be desired and could generate such swings with stations highly targeted. Now I am old and out of the business now, but could there have been a diary dump or incentive given to get 6-34 year olds to return said diary or whatever reporting they do? Is it a people meter now? Still a struggle with young demos i would guess.
All major and most mid-major markets are PPM. Detroit has been PPM for a decade. No diaries whatsoever.

The 6+ and 12+ has all demos lumped in together, so of course it's almost entirely irrelevant. That's why Nielsen allows them to be published and not the specific demos. It's terribly rudimentary and that's the point.



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SpartanAM
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Re: Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Post by SpartanAM » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:12 pm

Chiming in here regarding WJR. Could they be loosing ground to Salem's WDTK? I do hear a lot of "Detroit" callers on the Hugh Hewitt show which they carry live 6 to 9am. Hannity moved to WDTK and perhaps a lot of loyal WJR listeners went with him? I'd be interested to see Salem's numbers for this market as I don't think they are subscribing.


She's got the tower... She's got the power...

RadioRat
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Re: Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Post by RadioRat » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:08 pm

armchair pd wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:36 am
RadioRat wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:07 pm
In 96.3's case, it's a mostly voicetracked station in the wrong format.

They only track nights.
They're also sounding more like a hot ac again. The Goo Goo Dolls, Matchbox 20, Alanis type '90's songs seem to be back. Reaction to losings some P2's to The Breeze maybe?
Things could have changed there. I know at one time, the only live day parts were Blaine and the crew in the mornings plus Beau Derek middays. Beau's moved on so I figured that had chopped it down to just Blaine being live.



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Myron Falwell
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Re: Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Post by Myron Falwell » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:48 pm

RadioRat wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:08 pm
armchair pd wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:36 am
RadioRat wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:07 pm
In 96.3's case, it's a mostly voicetracked station in the wrong format.

They only track nights.
They're also sounding more like a hot ac again. The Goo Goo Dolls, Matchbox 20, Alanis type '90's songs seem to be back. Reaction to losings some P2's to The Breeze maybe?
Things could have changed there. I know at one time, the only live day parts were Blaine and the crew in the mornings plus Beau Derek middays. Beau's moved on so I figured that had chopped it down to just Blaine being live.
A big tell that something was up with WNSH 94.7 came when Cumulus surprisingly dropped the syndicated Nash morning show in favor of a local host, less than two weeks before Cumulus formerly traded that Nash to Entercom.

This is not to indicate that the same thing will happen in Detroit, but it may be in Cumulus' best interests to "dress up" the properties before selling them.



fuzzpower
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Re: Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Post by fuzzpower » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:26 pm

WDTK used to subscribe and drew a 0.1 or 0.2. Their flea powered translator may be the reason the numbers were that high. Does the station even have any sort of weekday local show? I haven’t listened in a few years.

Hugh Hewitt is as boring as Bill Bennett was. Horrible choice for AM Drive.



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Myron Falwell
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Re: Big changes in just released June ratings survey; WJR hits all-time record low

Post by Myron Falwell » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:41 pm

SpartanAM wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:12 pm
Chiming in here regarding WJR. Could they be loosing ground to Salem's WDTK? I do hear a lot of "Detroit" callers on the Hugh Hewitt show which they carry live 6 to 9am. Hannity moved to WDTK and perhaps a lot of loyal WJR listeners went with him? I'd be interested to see Salem's numbers for this market as I don't think they are subscribing.
Salem doesn't program their conservative talkers for ratings, but to promote conservative ideology. None of them have ever had any actual ratings of note, and caller participation on shows don't necessarily reflect ratings.

Their talk/preaching stations like WLQV make the money and their CCM stations draw the ratings (The Fish in Atlanta is on a ratings tear in the beauty pageant demos). "The Answer" is more of an afterthought.



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