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Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
videocollectore
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Re: Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Post by videocollectore » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:38 pm

In answer to those wanting a stronger and deeper WHNE signal into Canada, not gonna happen folks! WHNE gets paid based on revenue sharing from US advertisers and viewers, they get nothing from Canada, hence the focus of signal will always be Michigan and The US first and foremost.



innate-in-you
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Re: Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Post by innate-in-you » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:26 pm

I'm not sure WHNE gets any revenue directly from advertisers.
Certainly some (not necessarily all) of their revenue comes from renting subchannels to program providers.

WHNE is like a flea market. They rent booths to service providers, who are on their own to gather revenue to pay for their booths, whether they're out to sell something with infomercials or gather a flock of the faithful to support their churches.



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windsor
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Re: Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Post by windsor » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:03 pm

videocollectore wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:38 pm
In answer to those wanting a stronger and deeper WHNE signal into Canada, not gonna happen folks! WHNE gets paid based on revenue sharing from US advertisers and viewers, they get nothing from Canada, hence the focus of signal will always be Michigan and The US first and foremost.
They already have a very good signal into Windsor and area, so whats the fuckin problem???


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HD74
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Re: Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Post by HD74 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:37 pm

"Post by szmigiel » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:56 am

There is more overlap in the western suburbs than I thought there would be. Does anyone on the Westside actually pick up WLAJ as a good signal?"

Not right now, this is a new build, will closely follow the old WLNS pattern on VHF 6.


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CK-722
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Re: Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Post by CK-722 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:50 pm

Lansing is closer than you think. When interference occurs, for a certain percentage of the time, reflection is occurring from the troposphere, and terrain is less of a factor. If stations are actually operating on Low VHF, they bend over the hills better. So you may find that a station moving to Low VHF, there may well be advantages. And if ATSC 3.0 has some data redundancy, you may find that it overcomes some of the electrical noise. I think WHNE should test the Channel 3 performance, before getting too excited about moving to UHF.


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innate-in-you
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Re: Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Post by innate-in-you » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:24 pm

windsor wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:03 pm
videocollectore wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:38 pm
In answer to those wanting a stronger and deeper WHNE signal into Canada, not gonna happen folks! WHNE gets paid based on revenue sharing from US advertisers and viewers, they get nothing from Canada, hence the focus of signal will always be Michigan and The US first and foremost.
They already have a very good signal into Windsor and area, so whats the fuckin problem???
The problem is they can't stay on Channel 14 - WLAJ and WLNS will be there.

The spectrum of WLNS has been sold. WLNS still has a license to be a television station, but does not have spectrum for it.
RF Channel 14 will be carrying both WLNS and WLAJ.

The same transmitter will carry WLNS 6.1 with CBS, WLAJ 53.1 with ABC, and "CW+" with The CW.

With the market losing 12MHz of spectrum, the Lansing/Jackson market has been deIONized.



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SolarMax
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Re: Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Post by SolarMax » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:46 am

innate-in-you wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:24 pm
...The problem is they can't stay on Channel 14 - WLAJ and WLNS will be there. ...
WHNE is now on RF20, not 14. WKBD was on 14, now vacated, ready for the new occupants in January.
WTVS will be on RF20 in March.

I'm guessing that WHNE's consultant engineers have reviewed the possibilities available to them, probably including ones like those put forth by the armchair engineers here on the Buzzboard. :)



CK-722
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Re: Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Post by CK-722 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:27 am

audiophile, didn't WPVI (or as I call it, WTVI) CHOOSE to stay on Channel 6? Or was that mainly to increase digital splatter to NCE-FMs to get even with them?

Obviously, Channel 6 RF has advantages over Lower Low VHF. When I was a kid, The vacuum cleaner always caused interference to Channels 2 and 4, but not 5 and 6. But 5 and 6 had stronger signals also, in my RL.


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Splouge
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Re: Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Post by Splouge » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:43 am

It's not even the electrical interference that worries me, it's the fact that, if they decrease to 3 kW, the effective ERP will be 275 watts at my location (180 degrees), and it'll still only be 381 watts if they go to 6.5 kW, thanks to directionality


WHNE's transmitter is 11.5 miles away from me and is 483 feet, so an effective ERP of 275 watts could be receivable. WHPS-33 (yes, I know they're on UHF) comes in pretty well from 9.1 miles away, with their 205 foot transmitter and their effective ERP in my direction is only 131 watts. But I don't know if they're comparable being on different frequency bands.

The electrical interference is sort of a problem for me, living near the Marathon Oil Refinery, AK Steel, and Ford Rouge.
Last edited by Splouge on Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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HD74
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Re: Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Post by HD74 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:06 pm

Thunderstorms wipe out the lowest VHF channels. Unviewable.
Channel 3 in KZoo vanished from my TV every time a storm came in.
Of course that is the worst time to vanish.


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Ben Zonia
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Re: Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Post by Ben Zonia » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:24 pm

The latest is 6.5 kW from ~1100 feet.

There must be a Channel 2 somewhere close by. Maybe a vacant .ca analog allotment in Wiarton?


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Jason Kragt
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Re: Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Post by Jason Kragt » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:43 pm

HD74 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:06 pm
Thunderstorms wipe out the lowest VHF channels. Unviewable.
Channel 3 in KZoo vanished from my TV every time a storm came in.
Of course that is the worst time to vanish.
It didn't even take a thunderstorm. The small spark that sometimes happens when flipping a light switch was enough to take WWMT down for a few seconds when their digital signal was on channel 2.



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Ben Zonia
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Re: Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Post by Ben Zonia » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:49 pm

Can they get an STA and borrowed equipment to experiment with ATSC 3.0 on Channel 3? Like WKAR-TV's ATSC 3.0 operation?


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MWmetalhead
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Re: Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Post by MWmetalhead » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:52 pm

I remember horrible interference plaguing reception of WWMT in the analog days whenever a microwave oven in the house was running. (This probably wouldn't be an issue if using an outdoor antenna, but I was using rabbit ears.)

Depending on antenna orientation, there would also be diagonally shaped silver or yellow lines zipping across the screen at all times on VHF 3.



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Ben Zonia
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Re: Why can't WHNE go to UHF 30?

Post by Ben Zonia » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:22 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:52 pm

Depending on antenna orientation, there would also be diagonally shaped silver or yellow lines zipping across the screen at all times on VHF 3.
I think the diagonal lines would only be in analog. Whether what caused the diagonal lines would disrupt the digital picture transmission in some way, I don't know.


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