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Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

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km1125
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Re: Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

Post by km1125 » Sun May 12, 2024 6:44 pm

Lester The Nightfly wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 3:43 pm
Bail Bonds wrote:
Sat May 11, 2024 12:44 am
Netanyahu's actions are a response to the existential threats posed by Hamas, which has a long history of aggression towards Israel. The high casualty toll is tragic but should be attributed to Hamas, which uses civilian areas as shields for its military operations. While the strain on the U.S.-Israel relationship is regrettable, Israel's security decisions are imperative in safeguarding its citizens. Netanyahu's tough stance is necessary to dismantle Hamas's capabilities and ensure Israel's long-term stability and security.
The failure is the disproportional response by Netanyahu. It's analogous to neighbors having a long running dispute about a pet. One day a neighbor goes out and shoots the pet. In response the other neighbor shoots the neighbor's pet, shoots the family and burns the house down.

(Before anyone pipes up about any moral, ethnic or religious implications, I'm using this example as disproportional response. Nothing more, nothing less.
To be more accurate, that neighbor has killed every puppy you brought home for the last 10 years, and that response was just after the LAST one was torn limb-from-limb and then burned alive in front of the whole family.

Do I feel bad about a "disproportionate" response? F NO.



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TC Talks
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Re: Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

Post by TC Talks » Sun May 12, 2024 7:46 pm

km1125 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 6:44 pm
To be more accurate, that neighbor has killed every puppy you brought home for the last 10 years, and that response was just after the LAST one was torn limb-from-limb and then burned alive in front of the whole family.

Do I feel bad about a "disproportionate" response? F NO.
Was my neighbor's name Kristi Lynn Noem? Because she just went down in flames.

I'm sure there are people as psychopathic as you in most countries, but not more than those who are protesting for Netanyahu's removal. BTW, it's not just protesters, it's MP's too.
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bmw
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Re: Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

Post by bmw » Sun May 12, 2024 7:51 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 7:46 pm
I'm sure there are people as psychopathic as you in most countries, but not more than those who are protesting for Netanyahu's removal. BTW, it's not just protesters, it's MP's too.
...says the person who expressed support for Hamas paratroopers and supports Iran funding Hamas.

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Re: Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

Post by bmw » Sun May 12, 2024 8:10 pm

Lester The Nightfly wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 3:43 pm
(Before anyone pipes up about any moral, ethnic or religious implications, I'm using this example as disproportional response. Nothing more, nothing less.
Thanks for your disclaimer explaining to us that when it comes to military operations, you don't understand what the principles of proportionality actually are. Proportionality has nothing to do with your response being proportional to the attack to which you are responding, but rather the military gain being proportional to the damage caused to the civilian population. In other words, if your attack doesn't gain you much militarily or gain you much of a strategic advantage in a broader war, then excessive civilian casualties it not acceptable.

From Israel's 1998 manual on the rules of war:
Even when it is not possible to isolate the civilians from an assault and there is no other recourse but to attack, this does not constitute a green light to inflict unbridled harm on civilians. The commander is required to refrain from an attack that is expected to inflict harm on the civilian population that is disproportionate to the expected military gain.

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TC Talks
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Re: Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

Post by TC Talks » Sun May 12, 2024 10:04 pm

Bail Bonds wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 8:36 pm
I am far from Israel's biggest fan, but if you look at this whole situation objectively, its time to let them do their worst. HAM ASS needs to learn their lesson.
By killing thousands of civilians? That just creates more radicals.
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Rate This
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Re: Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

Post by Rate This » Mon May 13, 2024 12:48 am

Round Six wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 2:07 pm
Rate This wrote:
Sat May 11, 2024 2:57 pm
There are high odds he and his government get the boot from within soon. He’s not popular there.
I'm curious how you were able to ascertain the citizens of Israel are disgruntled over how their leaders are dealing with Hamas.
Opinion polls from within Israel, Netanyahu already being unpopular there overall… protests against the conscription efforts there… the list goes on…

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Re: Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

Post by zzand » Mon May 13, 2024 9:07 am

It is my belief that few if any of the hostages Hamas took are still alive.

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TC Talks
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Re: Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

Post by TC Talks » Mon May 13, 2024 10:18 am

Was hostage recovery really Netanyahu's goal?
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Re: Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

Post by TC Talks » Mon May 13, 2024 10:19 am

Bail Bonds wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 4:11 am
TC Talks wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 10:04 pm
Bail Bonds wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 8:36 pm
I am far from Israel's biggest fan, but if you look at this whole situation objectively, its time to let them do their worst. HAM ASS needs to learn their lesson.
By killing thousands of civilians? That just creates more radicals.
If the civilians come to fear Israel more than Ham Ass, then they will stop letting themselves be shields. The civilians aren't 100% innocent here. They let Ham Ass infiltrate their entire system.
You should keep learning about radicalized civilians, history has disproven what you suggest will happen.
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zzand
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Re: Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

Post by zzand » Mon May 13, 2024 10:29 am

Was hostage recovery really Netanyahu's goal?

Your response is troubling to say the least and I will leave it at that.

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Re: Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

Post by Rate This » Mon May 13, 2024 11:12 am

TC Talks wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 10:18 am
Was hostage recovery really Netanyahu's goal?
I’m certain it was his goal. He may be a zealot but he’s gonna use that zealotry to get the hostages back if possible.

I don’t know that they are dead either. They are worth far more alive than they are dead. Unless we suppose Hamas has no goal to win anything and doesn’t care but that wouldn’t make much sense.

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TC Talks
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Re: Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

Post by TC Talks » Mon May 13, 2024 11:56 am

zzand wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 10:29 am
Was hostage recovery really Netanyahu's goal?

Your response is troubling to say the least and I will leave it at that.
I agree the question is startling. I only ask, because there are many accusations in Israel that his actions have incumbered hostage recovery. Most recently, resuming attacks when a tentative hostage deal had been negotiated. All he seems to want is to attack, and that isn't resonating well with many many people.
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TC Talks
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Re: Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

Post by TC Talks » Mon May 13, 2024 1:14 pm

Bail Bonds wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 12:48 pm
TC Talks wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 10:19 am
Bail Bonds wrote:
Mon May 13, 2024 4:11 am
TC Talks wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 10:04 pm
Bail Bonds wrote:
Sun May 12, 2024 8:36 pm
I am far from Israel's biggest fan, but if you look at this whole situation objectively, its time to let them do their worst. HAM ASS needs to learn their lesson.
By killing thousands of civilians? That just creates more radicals.
If the civilians come to fear Israel more than Ham Ass, then they will stop letting themselves be shields. The civilians aren't 100% innocent here. They let Ham Ass infiltrate their entire system.
You should keep learning about radicalized civilians, history has disproven what you suggest will happen.
Not exactly.

History from this very specific conflict has taught us a few lessons you seem eager to ignore. One of those lessons is that if you pull these two apart now, there will just be more fighting later. Let them sort it out themselves.
Well, the United States disagrees

But let's be clear about what the issue really is...

I am in favor of the IDF going after terrorists who kidnapped Israeli citizens and bombed communities in Israel.

I am against the tactic of widespread bombing of civilian areas and the prevention of aid (and bombing aid workers) to reach refugees ordered to leave their homes.

This strategy that Netanyahu has ordered goes against international law and the terms under which the US supports Israel.
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TC Talks
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Re: Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

Post by TC Talks » Mon May 13, 2024 2:48 pm

That is an opinion, but it goes against International law, which superspeeds a conservative US opinion.

Further, protests across the nations which support Israel also have an impact.

There is a line between being Zionist and Extremist.
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Re: Netanyahu jeopardizes US relationship

Post by Honeyman » Mon May 13, 2024 7:57 pm

Hamas are fucking animals. They must be eliminated now, or they will do something even more horrific to the innocent Israeli citizens in another year or two. You don't stop fighting a fire when it's 80% contained. They need to be destroyed.
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