Trump Indicted For 2020 Post-Election Shenanigans

[bmw]

So how about Chuck Schumer when he said of the leaked Roe v. Wade decision "I want to tell you Gorsuch. I want to tell you Kavanaugh. You have released the whirlwind and you will pay the price. You won’t know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions" - should he be held responsible for the nutcase that was arrested not long after for the attempted murder of Justice Kavanaugh?

[Mega Hertz]

WHAT ABOUT WHEN CHARLES PICKNEY CALLED JAMES MADISON A TALLYWHACKER? HUH? HUH??? WHAT ABOUT THAT!!!!

[TC Talks]

WHAT ABOUT WHEN CHARLES PICKNEY CALLED JAMES MADISON A TALLYWHACKER? HUH? HUH??? WHAT ABOUT THAT!!!!

Great point.

[TC Talks]

For so loudly proclaiming how intellectually superior you are, you sure come across here as a dumb ass.

What I'm saying is that you can't in one breath bring up the issue of hardcore Trump supporters potentially being on the jury and not looking at the evidence objectively while also ignoring the equally problematic issue of hardcore Trump haters doing the same. Guilty or not guilty, doesn't matter. You've already tried and convicted him in your mind without any evidence being presented and without seeing Trump's defense, but you want anybody who might not agree with you to look at things "objectively."

BMW as a child...

[Turkeytop]

For so loudly proclaiming how intellectually superior you are, you sure come across here as a dumb ass.

What I'm saying is that you can't in one breath bring up the issue of hardcore Trump supporters potentially being on the jury and not looking at the evidence objectively while also ignoring the equally problematic issue of hardcore Trump haters doing the same. Guilty or not guilty, doesn't matter. You've already tried and convicted him in your mind without any evidence being presented and without seeing Trump's defense, but you want anybody who might not agree with you to look at things "objectively."

BMW as a child...

The image isn't there. Click on this link.

http://malepatternmadness.com/wp-conten ... c-V69d.jpg

[teetoppz28]

For so loudly proclaiming how intellectually superior you are, you sure come across here as a dumb ass.

What I'm saying is that you can't in one breath bring up the issue of hardcore Trump supporters potentially being on the jury and not looking at the evidence objectively while also ignoring the equally problematic issue of hardcore Trump haters doing the same. Guilty or not guilty, doesn't matter. You've already tried and convicted him in your mind without any evidence being presented and without seeing Trump's defense, but you want anybody who might not agree with you to look at things "objectively."

BMW as a child...

The image isn't there. Click on this link.

http://malepatternmadness.com/wp-conten ... c-V69d.jpg

lol!

[hanson]

I've been following the story in the news and there's one thing that puzzles me. That's the argument that Trump's actions were justified if he truly believed that he won the election and it had been stolen from him..

If I sincerely but mistakenly believe that my bank cheated me out of some money, does that give me license to go and rob the bank?

Willful ignorance.

[Rate This]

How can you convict the man when his defense hasn't presented a damn thing yet? Do you have any grasp of how our legal system works? You're innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on the state. And you get to defend yourself against the case the state presents.

And if you had actually read my responses to this thread, I've told you what his defense is likely to be - that this is a freedom of speech case - that all of his actions relevant to the charges against him fall within the classification of speech and that his speech is protected by the First Amendment as none of it rose to the level of malicious intent as required to prove conspiracy.

And after watching the trial (assuming it is public), I will give you my honest objective opinion on whether I think he's guilty or not.

They had a multi-month plan to try to get his loss overturned and he freely admitted he knew he lost. His speech on the 6th is like yelling FIRE! In a crowded theatre… not holding a sign that says “Hey I won!”. The free speech argument is gonna get him exactly nowhere.

[Rate This]

So how about Chuck Schumer when he said of the leaked Roe v. Wade decision "I want to tell you Gorsuch. I want to tell you Kavanaugh. You have released the whirlwind and you will pay the price. You won’t know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions" - should he be held responsible for the nutcase that was arrested not long after for the attempted murder of Justice Kavanaugh?

That’s non specific. He’s not talking to a bunch of people who are gonna go March right over there and tear the place apart. Trump was literally talking to some of the people who walked right over there and broke in.

[TC Talks]

Here another fun aspect of this to think about...

If convicted in any of the three criminal cases he is now facing, Donald Trump may be able to influence whether he goes to prison and what his stay there looks like under a law that allows former U.S. presidents to keep Secret Service protection for life, some current and former U.S. officials said.

Maybe they can confine him to a golf course in New Jersey. Meanwhile, he's threatening potential witnesses from his social media:

“IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING AFTER YOU!” he wrote.

Shortly after, in a standard move early in a criminal prosecution, the government filed its request for a protective order in the case to Judge Chutkan. Prosecutors noted that protections over discovery were “particularly important” in this instance given that Mr. Trump “has previously issued public statements on social media regarding witnesses, judges, attorneys and others associated with legal matters pending against him.”

[bmw]

They had a multi-month plan to try to get his loss overturned and he freely admitted he knew he lost.

This claim is sorely lacking in detail. When did he admit he lost? Where? To whom? And what were his exact words? In what context? Those things matter.

His speech on the 6th is like yelling FIRE! In a crowded theatre… not holding a sign that says “Hey I won!”. The free speech argument is gonna get him exactly nowhere.

So why wasn't Trump charged with inciting a riot? 18 USC 2101 would have been the appropriate statute to charge him under. But he wasn't. And for good reason - because just like above, context matters. And in this instance, we have an exact transcript of every word he said. It was a long speech that concluded as follows:

And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. Our exciting adventures and boldest endeavors have not yet begun. My fellow Americans, for our movement, for our children, and for our beloved country. And I say this despite all that's happened. The best is yet to come.

So we're going to, we're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue. And we're going to the Capitol, and we're going to try and give. The Democrats are hopeless — they never vote for anything. Not even one vote. But we're going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.

I want to thank you all. God bless you and God Bless America. Thank you all for being here. This is incredible. Thank you very much. Thank you.

I know this is what everyone latches on to. But context matters. Earlier in that same speech, he said this:

Republicans are, Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It's like a boxer. And we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. And we're going to have to fight much harder.

And Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us, and if he doesn't, that will be a, a sad day for our country because you're sworn to uphold our Constitution.

Now, it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we're going to walk down, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down, we're going to walk down. Anyone you want, but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol, and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.

Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

Here, he uses words like "walk," "cheer," "peacefully," and "patriotically." And if you read the lengthy portion between those 2 segments of his speech, taking his speech in its entirety, he is clearly never using the word "fight" to suggest or even imply that the people who he is calling on to walk down to the capital and peacefully and patriotically cheer on Republican Congressmen should engage in violence.

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/10/96639684 ... ment-trial

[audiophile]

I believe you just won your case.

https://youtu.be/xs3_hNYAVRw?t=82

[Rate This]

They had a multi-month plan to try to get his loss overturned and he freely admitted he knew he lost.

This claim is sorely lacking in detail. When did he admit he lost? Where? To whom? And what were his exact words? In what context? Those things matter.

His speech on the 6th is like yelling FIRE! In a crowded theatre… not holding a sign that says “Hey I won!”. The free speech argument is gonna get him exactly nowhere.

So why wasn't Trump charged with inciting a riot? 18 USC 2101 would have been the appropriate statute to charge him under. But he wasn't. And for good reason - because just like above, context matters. And in this instance, we have an exact transcript of every word he said. It was a long speech that concluded as follows:

And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. Our exciting adventures and boldest endeavors have not yet begun. My fellow Americans, for our movement, for our children, and for our beloved country. And I say this despite all that's happened. The best is yet to come.

So we're going to, we're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue. And we're going to the Capitol, and we're going to try and give. The Democrats are hopeless — they never vote for anything. Not even one vote. But we're going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.

I want to thank you all. God bless you and God Bless America. Thank you all for being here. This is incredible. Thank you very much. Thank you.

I know this is what everyone latches on to. But context matters. Earlier in that same speech, he said this:

Republicans are, Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It's like a boxer. And we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. And we're going to have to fight much harder.

And Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us, and if he doesn't, that will be a, a sad day for our country because you're sworn to uphold our Constitution.

Now, it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we're going to walk down, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down, we're going to walk down. Anyone you want, but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol, and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.

Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

Here, he uses words like "walk," "cheer," "peacefully," and "patriotically." And if you read the lengthy portion between those 2 segments of his speech, taking his speech in its entirety, he is clearly never using the word "fight" to suggest or even imply that the people who he is calling on to walk down to the capital and peacefully and patriotically cheer on Republican Congressmen should engage in violence.

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/10/96639684 ... ment-trial

So it’s a random miracle they forcefully broke into the capital? They were randomly armed? Are you high? These things didn’t occur randomly in a vacuum. We also have sworn testimony from several witnesses that he did realize he lost and kept it going anyways mostly for grifting purposes. They had alternate slates of electors they were ready to send in to try to steal the election and he suggested Mike Pence be hung the day of… but this guy could shoot you in the head at point blank range and your response would be to inform him where he should aim to hit you better.

The next indictment should come about the middle of the month and be in Georgia… they are already preparing for the potential of violence there, asking the DA’s staff to work from home etc… he’s up shits creek without a paddle as it’s highly unlikely he escapes Scott free as these cases keep coming.

[bmw]

So it’s a random miracle they forcefully broke into the capital? They were randomly armed? Are you high? These things didn’t occur randomly in a vacuum.

Now THIS is the kind of thing conspiracies are made of, because what you're suggesting is that there was a behind-the-scenes conspiracy, run by Donald Trump, prior to him giving his speech, to organize and arm people and send them off to break into the Capitol. What evidence do you have of this being the case?

We also have sworn testimony from several witnesses that he did realize he lost and kept it going anyways mostly for grifting purposes.

I asked you for specifics, and you have yet to provide a single one. What specifically did Trump say? Where? To whom? When? You keep making these vague accusations without actually backing them up, and the devil is going to be in the details. I've already read the various pieces of testimony you're referring to, and my conclusion is very different from yours. But I'll let you make the case since you're the one making the claim.

They had alternate slates of electors they were ready to send in to try to steal the election

"They"? Again, who is "they"? You would get eaten alive by opposing counsel in a courtroom.

From what I've read, there are allegations that this took place in 7 states. And in 6 of those states, Trump is not the focus of any investigation. The 7th state - Georgia - is one where Trump IS being criminally investigated over this, and apparently we will know within the next few weeks whether charges are going to be filed against him or not (I suspect they will be). Then we can review any such indictment and the evidence to support it.

and he suggested Mike Pence be hung the day of

That claim is pure hearsay. It comes from testimony given by Cassidy Hutchinson who claims she heard Mark Meadows say what Trump's sentiments were. That would not be admissible in a criminal trial - we would need somebody who actually heard Trump say such a thing testify.

[bmw]

I believe you just won your case.

https://youtu.be/xs3_hNYAVRw?t=82

It really is shocking the disdain that so many people have for due process rights. The most some peabrains can some up with is "TRUMP BAD! LOCK HIM UP!" Except that we've moved on past arguing whether what Trump did was bad or unethical or whatever negative word you want to use here. We're now on to arguing whether what Trump did was criminal and in violation of specific federal statutes. This is where due process rights come into play and being proven guilty of a crime in a court of law is very different from someone dislking or despising Trump for how he handled his electoral loss. I've long said Biden won fair and square - in fact, I think I said as much in this forum a day or 2 after the election. I think Trump's behavior was childish at best. But I haven't seen anything that, beyond a reasonable doubt, rises to the level of criminal conspiracy. And again, we'll wait and see what actually comes out at trial.