It’s money that has been appropriated for things. It’s not sitting around somewhere waiting for a rainy day. Every dollar there has a purpose in an item in the budget.audiophile wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 12:20 pmNot all money budgeted has been spent or has been contracted, so this is apples to oranges. Your credit bill is money already spent.Rate This wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 11:27 amAnd the “debt limit” is not a way to do that. It puts a limit on spending congress has already passed. That would be akin to somebody looking at their credit limit, spending 80% of it and then the credit card company telling you that 75% of your limit is the limit and charging you for going over it. It makes no sense.zzand wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 11:21 amIMHO bypassing Congress would get him what he wants but may also cause fallout. What that fallout would be, above my paid grade, but it is possible. Everyone needs to grow up and work this out together. We do need to reign in spending and live within our means.
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The Debt Limit..
Re: The Debt Limit..
Re: The Debt Limit..
No, it's from a poster who watched how the GOP did it when they were in the majority.Matt wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 10:20 amThis from a poster who absolutely has NO IDEA how the government works.TC Talks wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:38 amThere is a majority of Democrats in the senate. The president shouldn't let this punk do anything but pound sand.audiophile wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:29 amInteresting perspective from Bob Hockett.
I just learned that 43 senators have signed on the McCathy's house bill, so that mean Biden should negotiate. There is simply not the votes without some bi-partisan activity. Had only 39 signed there was chance another bill could be passed in the Senate.
“Blessed are those who are righteous in his name.”
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.
Re: The Debt Limit..
Democrats aren't in the majority on both houses. It is a split government.TC Talks wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 1:26 pmNo, it's from a poster who watched how the GOP did it when they were in the majority.Matt wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 10:20 amThis from a poster who absolutely has NO IDEA how the government works.TC Talks wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:38 amThere is a majority of Democrats in the senate. The president shouldn't let this punk do anything but pound sand.audiophile wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:29 amInteresting perspective from Bob Hockett.
I just learned that 43 senators have signed on the McCathy's house bill, so that mean Biden should negotiate. There is simply not the votes without some bi-partisan activity. Had only 39 signed there was chance another bill could be passed in the Senate.
Voting for Trump is dumber than playing Russian Roulette with fully loaded chambers.
Re: The Debt Limit..
Congress has the power of the purse. Any mental gymnastics challenging the constitutionality of an enumerated power in the constitution is a waste of time.FakeAndyStuart wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:19 amMay not be supported by the Constitution. A renowned legal professor, when asked if the executive branch could just invoke some form of the 14th Amendment and borrow more money.. said this.
I agree that we need to curtail some fed govt. spending. Fuxking with the debt limit is not the right tool.Bob Hockett, Cornell Law School professor, when asked by Axios wrote:Because the national debt entailed by previous Congressional budgets is itself effectively legislated, Republicans House Members who sued would effectively be asking the courts to require the US to default on its own Congressionally contracted debts - a violation of contact law, constitutional law, and international law. There is no way the Supreme Court would grant this. Even the 'socially' conservative justices are nearly all of them economically moderate, at least where contractual debt obligations are concerned. Only Thomas, and MAYBE Coney Barrett, might - might - be sufficiently alien- minded to vindicate that. Worst- case scenario, then, is that Biden, the Senate, and House Dems win 6-3, while best-case scenario is they win 8-1 or even
9-0.
/End initial topic of thread
Last edited by Matt on Tue May 09, 2023 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Voting for Trump is dumber than playing Russian Roulette with fully loaded chambers.
Re: The Debt Limit..
Across the board cuts are never a good idea from an operational standpoint. I'd argue that they are lazy and sidestep prioritizing what is important to a business or government. Executive leadership should have some flexibility in deciding how to weather budgetary cutbacks.Round Six wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 10:45 amI also am not intimate with the inner workings of the government. So if this query sounds retarded, tell me so.
Pros and cons of a 2 percent cut of everything. Salaries, spending, everything. Everybody and everything.
I know it's overly simplistic. Tell me why.
Voting for Trump is dumber than playing Russian Roulette with fully loaded chambers.
Re: The Debt Limit..
And there are some moderate Republicans who know they have leverage here. Only the extremists would allow a default.Matt wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 1:37 pmDemocrats aren't in the majority on both houses. It is a split government.TC Talks wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 1:26 pmNo, it's from a poster who watched how the GOP did it when they were in the majority.Matt wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 10:20 amThis from a poster who absolutely has NO IDEA how the government works.TC Talks wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:38 amThere is a majority of Democrats in the senate. The president shouldn't let this punk do anything but pound sand.audiophile wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:29 amInteresting perspective from Bob Hockett.
I just learned that 43 senators have signed on the McCathy's house bill, so that mean Biden should negotiate. There is simply not the votes without some bi-partisan activity. Had only 39 signed there was chance another bill could be passed in the Senate.
“Blessed are those who are righteous in his name.”
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.
- FakeAndyStuart
- Posts: 491
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Re: The Debt Limit..
Unfortunately, you cannot declare "Mission Accomplished" here my friend. Congress has the power to spend, but the Executive branch has the responsibility to pay the bills that Congress runs up. Does Congress have the unilateral right to charge a bunch of things and then not pay the bill when it comes? And don't gaslight anyone here - every dollar that has been spent up to today was authorized by those who have the "power of the purse". Again, I don't disagree with the premise of reducing the deficit, but you can't do it this way.Matt wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 1:39 pmCongress has the power of the purse. Any mental gymnastics challenging the constitutionality of an enumerated power in the constitution is a waste of time.FakeAndyStuart wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:19 amMay not be supported by the Constitution. A renowned legal professor, when asked if the executive branch could just invoke some form of the 14th Amendment and borrow more money.. said this.
I agree that we need to curtail some fed govt. spending. Fuxking with the debt limit is not the right tool.Bob Hockett, Cornell Law School professor, when asked by Axios wrote:Because the national debt entailed by previous Congressional budgets is itself effectively legislated, Republicans House Members who sued would effectively be asking the courts to require the US to default on its own Congressionally contracted debts - a violation of contact law, constitutional law, and international law. There is no way the Supreme Court would grant this. Even the 'socially' conservative justices are nearly all of them economically moderate, at least where contractual debt obligations are concerned. Only Thomas, and MAYBE Coney Barrett, might - might - be sufficiently alien- minded to vindicate that. Worst- case scenario, then, is that Biden, the Senate, and House Dems win 6-3, while best-case scenario is they win 8-1 or even
9-0.
/End initial topic of thread
- MWmetalhead
- Site Admin
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Re: The Debt Limit..
I disagree with that premise. A debt default could have disastrous consequences in terms of the capital markets, and people's 401K balances could tank. I think under such a scenario voters are more likely to blame Congress than the President.Commenting just from a political perspective - IF the Republicans ultimately cave on this issue (which, if past behavior is any indication, that is a likely outcome) and Biden mostly gets his way, the Republican party is finished.
Morgan Wallen is a piece of garbage.
Re: The Debt Limit..
My point was that Republicans have already passed a bill and dug their heels in. It would be the act of digging their heels in and then caving at the last minute that would finish them as a party. I do agree that a lot of voters would blame Congress rather than the President, but only because the President is a Democrat and Republicans always get the blame for government shutdowns (and this type of blame I suspect would apply to a default).MWmetalhead wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 6:21 amI disagree with that premise. A debt default could have disastrous consequences in terms of the capital markets, and people's 401K balances could tank. I think under such a scenario voters are more likely to blame Congress than the President.Commenting just from a political perspective - IF the Republicans ultimately cave on this issue (which, if past behavior is any indication, that is a likely outcome) and Biden mostly gets his way, the Republican party is finished.
As an aside, the House HAS passed a bill to raise the debt ceiling.
- audiophile
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Re: The Debt Limit..
Since the house has passed a bill and the senate hasn't, the senate with democrat majority should get the blame.bmw wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:04 amMy point was that Republicans have already passed a bill and dug their heels in. It would be the act of digging their heels in and then caving at the last minute that would finish them as a party. I do agree that a lot of voters would blame Congress rather than the President, but only because the President is a Democrat and Republicans always get the blame for government shutdowns (and this type of blame I suspect would apply to a default).MWmetalhead wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 6:21 amI disagree with that premise. A debt default could have disastrous consequences in terms of the capital markets, and people's 401K balances could tank. I think under such a scenario voters are more likely to blame Congress than the President.Commenting just from a political perspective - IF the Republicans ultimately cave on this issue (which, if past behavior is any indication, that is a likely outcome) and Biden mostly gets his way, the Republican party is finished.
As an aside, the House HAS passed a bill to raise the debt ceiling.
Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!
Re: The Debt Limit..
Things wouldn't go that way except in a very small group of self destructionists.audiophile wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:23 amSince the house has passed a bill and the senate hasn't, the senate with democrat majority should get the blame.bmw wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:04 amMy point was that Republicans have already passed a bill and dug their heels in. It would be the act of digging their heels in and then caving at the last minute that would finish them as a party. I do agree that a lot of voters would blame Congress rather than the President, but only because the President is a Democrat and Republicans always get the blame for government shutdowns (and this type of blame I suspect would apply to a default).MWmetalhead wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 6:21 amI disagree with that premise. A debt default could have disastrous consequences in terms of the capital markets, and people's 401K balances could tank. I think under such a scenario voters are more likely to blame Congress than the President.Commenting just from a political perspective - IF the Republicans ultimately cave on this issue (which, if past behavior is any indication, that is a likely outcome) and Biden mostly gets his way, the Republican party is finished.
As an aside, the House HAS passed a bill to raise the debt ceiling.
This is about a small radical group of Republicans that want their way and aren't going to get their way. Biden can end run this if necessary. See my post about his options.
“Blessed are those who are righteous in his name.”
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.
Re: The Debt Limit..
They can also whip up a few trillion dollar coins and deposit them in the federal reserve.TC Talks wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:27 amThings wouldn't go that way except in a very small group of self destructionists.audiophile wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:23 amSince the house has passed a bill and the senate hasn't, the senate with democrat majority should get the blame.bmw wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:04 amMy point was that Republicans have already passed a bill and dug their heels in. It would be the act of digging their heels in and then caving at the last minute that would finish them as a party. I do agree that a lot of voters would blame Congress rather than the President, but only because the President is a Democrat and Republicans always get the blame for government shutdowns (and this type of blame I suspect would apply to a default).MWmetalhead wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 6:21 amI disagree with that premise. A debt default could have disastrous consequences in terms of the capital markets, and people's 401K balances could tank. I think under such a scenario voters are more likely to blame Congress than the President.Commenting just from a political perspective - IF the Republicans ultimately cave on this issue (which, if past behavior is any indication, that is a likely outcome) and Biden mostly gets his way, the Republican party is finished.
As an aside, the House HAS passed a bill to raise the debt ceiling.
This is about a small radical group of Republicans that want their way and aren't going to get their way. Biden can end run this if necessary. See my post about his options.
Re: The Debt Limit..
Debt is a theory for the US at this point. It hasn't caused the end of times predictions conservatives have threatened for years.
Default? Big problem.
Default? Big problem.
“Blessed are those who are righteous in his name.”
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.
Re: The Debt Limit..
Well...McCarthy (as I expected) folded like a cheap tent. We'll see if House Republicans follow suit, They kind of have to since they ultimately caved by electing McCarthy as Speaker.
This just sealed Trump's nomination, IMO.
Re: The Debt Limit..
McCarthy and Biden have a deal. Now it's time to test if super nuts in the house have any weight. Its likely they will be sidelined in many negotiations going forward. These are the Trump supporters and they are slipping into irrelevancy. Biden has pisssd off the very progressives too. Maybe the pendulum is move back to moderation.
In a sign of their displeasure, House Freedom Caucus members were huddling to identify procedural tools to delay passage of the agreement or make the bill more conservative.
According to a person familiar with the agreement, it also would impose new work requirements for some recipients of government aid, including food stamps and the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program. It would place new limits on how long certain recipients of food stamps — people under the age of 54, who do not have children — could benefit from the program. But it also would expand food stamp access for veterans and the homeless, said the person, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss details of the package.
The tentative deal also claws back some unspent money from a previous pandemic relief bill, and reduces by $10 billion — to $70 billion from $80 billion — new enforcement funding for the I.R.S. to crack down on tax cheats. It includes measures meant to speed environmental reviews of certain energy projects and a provision meant to force the president to find budget savings to offset the costs of a unilateral action, like forgiving student loans — though administration officials could circumvent that requirement. It also includes an enforcement measure that is meant to avert a government shutdown later this year.
The work requirements and the environmental review reforms were among the last details the two sides worked out on Saturday.
“Blessed are those who are righteous in his name.”
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.
― Matt
Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.