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The Debt Limit..

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Bryce
Posts: 7141
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:04 pm

Re: The Debt Limit..

Post by Bryce » Mon May 29, 2023 12:12 am

Rate This wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 10:24 pm
bmw wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 8:39 pm
$475 billion a year in debt interest and a $1.4 trillion annual deficit isn't exactly something to brag about.
Well… if you repeatedly cut taxes and never cut spending this is what happens. I’d say this is by design by the folks who are proponents of cutting taxes.
Every single time there is a tax cut, revenue goes up. There isn't a revenue problem, there is a spending problem.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Bryce
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Re: The Debt Limit..

Post by Bryce » Mon May 29, 2023 12:20 am

TC Talks wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 7:57 pm
Bryce wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 5:58 pm
km1125 wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 4:27 pm
Rate This wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 4:24 pm
bmw wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 12:48 pm
TC Talks wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 9:55 am
Maybe the pendulum is move back to moderation.
Capping spending for 2 years without any cuts (when the Republican position going into negotiation was to return to 2022 spending levels, which is hardly a radical position) is not what I'd call moderation. Most Democrats will vote in favor of this deal because, as per usual, they got the better end of it. Ultimately, we continue down the path of massive federal spending and a growing, unsustainable debt.
I keep hearing the debt is some giant problem lurking to kill us and we have gone from $4 to $30+ Trillion in 22 years… gee… we are still here.
How much of our annual budget just pays for interest on the debt?
From what I understand we are currently making larger interest payments then we spend on national defense.
You are incorrect. Here's 2022...
Image
Um, the interest number would certainly be higher in 2023 because the Fed keeps raising interest rates to fight BidInflation.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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TC Talks
Posts: 10100
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:41 am

Re: The Debt Limit..

Post by TC Talks » Mon May 29, 2023 5:14 am

Bryce wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 12:12 am
Rate This wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 10:24 pm
bmw wrote:
Sun May 28, 2023 8:39 pm
$475 billion a year in debt interest and a $1.4 trillion annual deficit isn't exactly something to brag about.
Well… if you repeatedly cut taxes and never cut spending this is what happens. I’d say this is by design by the folks who are proponents of cutting taxes.
Every single time there is a tax cut, revenue goes up. There isn't a revenue problem, there is a spending problem.
That's a sucker statement. Revenue always grows. Ask the right questions

Did the TCJA spur enough growth to maintain federal revenue levels?
While some TCJA supporters observe that nominal revenues were higher in fiscal year 2018 (which began Oct. 1, 2017) than in FY2017, that comparison does not address the question of the TCJA’s effects. Nominal revenues rise because of inflation and economic growth. Adjusted for inflation, total revenues fell from FY2017 to FY2018 (Figure 1). Adjusted for the size of the economy, they fell even more.

The right question
: What would revenues have been without the TCJA?
The most appropriate test of the revenue impact of the TCJA is to compare actual revenues in FY2018 with predicted revenues in FY2018 assuming Congress had not passed the legislation. In fact, the actual amount of revenue collected in FY2018 was significantly lower than the Congressional Budget Office’s (CBO) projection of FY2018 revenue made in January 2017—before the tax cuts were signed into law in December 2017. The shortfall was $275 billion, or 7.6% of revenues that were expected before the tax cuts took place. Given that the economy grew, and in the absence of another policy that could have caused a large revenue loss, the data imply that the TCJA substantially reduced revenues (Figure 1).
Brookings
Image


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: The Debt Limit..

Post by MWmetalhead » Mon May 29, 2023 6:54 am

Government Debt to GDP is the ratio I like to use to analyze trends. That ratio is now twice as high as it was fifteen years ago. That's despite the fact our GDP has grown substantially over that time.

The growth in this ratio needs to be brought under control. 2020 was the year where it really surged; it's gotten slightly worse since then. The spending caps contained in the debt ceiling deal are a reasonable place to start, but it's only that - a start.

The annual budget / appropriations process ought to be used to enact further, specific cuts.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/U ... rom%202016.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-sta ... 0in%201981.

The pandemic is over; government spending needs to be closer to 2019 levels.

I do think entitlement reform is needed for Gen Y and younger. Nearly half of Medicare funding now comes from the general budget as opposed to payroll taxes.

While SS is not in as bad of fiscal shape as Medicare, that program has been running deficits for each of the past 12 years, thereby requiring the U.S. Treasury to issue debt to cover the shortfall.

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2 ... t-deficit/



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audiophile
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Location: Between 88 and 108 MHz.

Re: The Debt Limit..

Post by audiophile » Mon May 29, 2023 7:05 am

Government is still handing out money like candy at a parade. I'm convinced it is to "buy" votes.


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

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MWmetalhead
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Re: The Debt Limit..

Post by MWmetalhead » Mon May 29, 2023 7:20 am

Without a doubt. The whole blanket college loan forgiveness edict that the Biden Administration tried to institute was a ploy to drive young adults to the polls in 2022. The moratorium on loan payback requirements is a similar strategy.

Corporate welfare programs supported by members of both parties at the federal and state levels often receive such support because the proponents know they can expect campaign contributions or "soft money" advocacy in return. Such programs largely backfired with regard to economic benefit during the Granholm and Snyder years, which is why it is so profoundly disappointing to see Whitmer want to hand out absurdly high "incentives" to proposed manufacturing facilities in Marshall and Big Rapids. I could give two shits about the Chinese involvement (in terms of assessing cost vs. benefit). Fiscally, those proposals are terrible ideas, period.



Taco
Posts: 576
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:55 am

Re: The Debt Limit..

Post by Taco » Mon May 29, 2023 10:48 am

Realistically, the debt will never, ever be paid off.


Woe to you, oh earth and sea
For the Devil sends the beast with wrath
Because he knows the time is short
Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast
For it is a human number
Its number is six hundred and sixty-six

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MWmetalhead
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Re: The Debt Limit..

Post by MWmetalhead » Mon May 29, 2023 11:12 am

True; it doesn't need to be. Controlling annual deficits, and ideally, getting to a balanced budget should be the goal.



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TC Talks
Posts: 10100
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:41 am

Re: The Debt Limit..

Post by TC Talks » Mon May 29, 2023 11:23 am

audiophile wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 7:05 am
Government is still handing out money like candy at a parade. I'm convinced it is to "buy" votes.
I have noticed that Churches still don't pay any taxes... That is sort of the same thing...


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

km1125
Posts: 3570
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:09 pm

Re: The Debt Limit..

Post by km1125 » Mon May 29, 2023 12:44 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 11:23 am
audiophile wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 7:05 am
Government is still handing out money like candy at a parade. I'm convinced it is to "buy" votes.
I have noticed that Churches still don't pay any taxes... That is sort of the same thing...
Wow... checking if Hell is freezing over again. I'm actually with you on this one.

I think EVERY property owner should be paying property taxes, based at least in part by how many acres (or portion thereof) that you own, and the proportion it is of the county or municipality. And those should be based on the minimum operating requirements of the area. And I don't think they **ever** should be waived. You could add additional assessments for certain "luxuries" that could be waived in certain circumstances. (and only property owners should have a vote on property taxes!)

If you and your buddies want to create a church or lodge that's just fine. Pool your resources and pay for the property and the ongoing costs, which include some type of property tax.



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TC Talks
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Re: The Debt Limit..

Post by TC Talks » Mon May 29, 2023 1:50 pm

audiophile wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 7:05 am
Government is still handing out money like candy at a parade. I'm convinced it is to "buy" votes.
And Billionaires pay nearly no taxes but their donations basically keep the GOP alive thanks to the gaping loopholes Biden will hopefully close.

You are the biggest patsey for this group on the board.


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

bmw
Posts: 6723
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:02 am

Re: The Debt Limit..

Post by bmw » Mon May 29, 2023 7:14 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 1:50 pm
Billionaires pay nearly no taxes
:roll:



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Rate This
Posts: 13961
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:17 am

Re: The Debt Limit..

Post by Rate This » Mon May 29, 2023 8:22 pm

bmw wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 7:14 pm
TC Talks wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 1:50 pm
Billionaires pay nearly no taxes
:roll:
They can afford people to get them out of taxes… income into losses and on it goes.



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TC Talks
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Re: The Debt Limit..

Post by TC Talks » Mon May 29, 2023 9:28 pm

Rate This wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 8:22 pm
bmw wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 7:14 pm
TC Talks wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 1:50 pm
Billionaires pay nearly no taxes
:roll:
They can afford people to get them out of taxes… income into losses and on it goes.
BMW must really have a crappy CPA.


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

bmw
Posts: 6723
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:02 am

Re: The Debt Limit..

Post by bmw » Tue May 30, 2023 10:43 am

TC Talks wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 11:23 am
I have noticed that Churches still don't pay any taxes... That is sort of the same thing...
And just in the interest of public disclosure, exactly how many different non-profit boards have you served on in your lifetime? And how much do the organizations on whose boards you've served actually pay in taxes?



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