A major new study shows that masks don't stop the spread of COVID. Will the mandaters apologize?

[Matt]

Immunity really occurs after you have it.

No, it doesn't. People have had it multiple times.

Matt - you seem to be reasonably intelligent. So I don't know why you struggle with this particular concept. Having actual Covid generates the same exact immunity that a live-attenuated vaccine would create, if such a vaccine existed. When you have Covid, your body generates antibodies, so not only are you less susceptible to getting it a second time (at least within the window of however long that immunity lasts for), but if you do get it, the virus is no longer completely unrecognized to your body, so your immune system can fight it off much faster the second time around. That's part of the problem with an initial infection: it takes your body time to generate antibodies to fight it, and by then, it can already be in an advanced state. But if you survive an initial infection, you will be better off later. This isn't rocket science. It is how your body develops an immune system after you're born - being exposed to and catching all the common viruses that are out there. If you keep a kid in a sterile bubble and they never get sick while a child, they're potentially in for a world of hurt as an adult as common viruses are novel to their immune systems.

And btw - the fact that some unspecified number of people have had it multiple times is your evidence that natural immunity is a myth?

Of course it logically makes sense that a previous infection offers some level of immunity, but so does vaccination. I've had the flu several times in my life, including early December (which resulted in me taking two very rare sick days). I pretty much knocked out the awful symptoms in about 36 hours, and I credit that to having received a flu shot. I started getting flu shots every year in 2011 after a flu episode that knocked me on my ass for 4-5 days in March 2011.

[TC Talks]

It's not your experience, it's your anti Christian values. You lack compassion and grace but have plenty of judgement and barely conceal your hate for those who don't believe in your version of faith.

Hey Strawman.
I just went thru this whole thread. Nowhere does audiophile say anything about religious beliefs.

Head back to the kiddie pool, this has been an issue since 2009.

[audiophile]

Immunity really occurs after you have it.

No, it doesn't. People have had it multiple times.

Matt - you seem to be reasonably intelligent. So I don't know why you struggle with this particular concept. Having actual Covid generates the same exact immunity that a live-attenuated vaccine would create, if such a vaccine existed. When you have Covid, your body generates antibodies, so not only are you less susceptible to getting it a second time (at least within the window of however long that immunity lasts for), but if you do get it, the virus is no longer completely unrecognized to your body, so your immune system can fight it off much faster the second time around. That's part of the problem with an initial infection: it takes your body time to generate antibodies to fight it, and by then, it can already be in an advanced state. But if you survive an initial infection, you will be better off later. This isn't rocket science. It is how your body develops an immune system after you're born - being exposed to and catching all the common viruses that are out there. If you keep a kid in a sterile bubble and they never get sick while a child, they're potentially in for a world of hurt as an adult as common viruses are novel to their immune systems.

And btw - the fact that some unspecified number of people have had it multiple times is your evidence that natural immunity is a myth?

Of course it logically makes sense that a previous infection offers some level of immunity, but so does vaccination. I've had the flu several times in my life, including early December (which resulted in me taking two very rare sick days). I pretty much knocked out the awful symptoms in about 36 hours, and I credit that to having received a flu shot. I started getting flu shots every year in 2011 after a flu episode that knocked me on my ass for 4-5 days in March 2011.

I never have had a FLU shot and I haven't had FLU in 20 years. Nothing beats natural immunity for viruses.

[Honeyman]

Immunity really occurs after you have it.

No, it doesn't. People have had it multiple times.

Matt - you seem to be reasonably intelligent. So I don't know why you struggle with this particular concept. Having actual Covid generates the same exact immunity that a live-attenuated vaccine would create, if such a vaccine existed. When you have Covid, your body generates antibodies, so not only are you less susceptible to getting it a second time (at least within the window of however long that immunity lasts for), but if you do get it, the virus is no longer completely unrecognized to your body, so your immune system can fight it off much faster the second time around. That's part of the problem with an initial infection: it takes your body time to generate antibodies to fight it, and by then, it can already be in an advanced state. But if you survive an initial infection, you will be better off later. This isn't rocket science. It is how your body develops an immune system after you're born - being exposed to and catching all the common viruses that are out there. If you keep a kid in a sterile bubble and they never get sick while a child, they're potentially in for a world of hurt as an adult as common viruses are novel to their immune systems.

And btw - the fact that some unspecified number of people have had it multiple times is your evidence that natural immunity is a myth?

Of course it logically makes sense that a previous infection offers some level of immunity, but so does vaccination. I've had the flu several times in my life, including early December (which resulted in me taking two very rare sick days). I pretty much knocked out the awful symptoms in about 36 hours, and I credit that to having received a flu shot. I started getting flu shots every year in 2011 after a flu episode that knocked me on my ass for 4-5 days in March 2011.

I never have had a FLU shot and I haven't had FLU in 20 years. Nothing beats natural immunity for viruses.

Such a stupid comment. A smoker could say they smoke a pack a day for 20 years and haven't gotten lung cancer, so cigarettes are fine.

[bmw]

Immunity really occurs after you have it.

No, it doesn't.

Of course it logically makes sense that a previous infection offers some level of immunity, but so does vaccination.

Well that was an interesting back-pedal. You've multiple times in the past claimed that, and I think your exact phrase was "natural immunity is a myth," so I guess it is nice to see you finally admit that natural immunity is a thing.

As far as re-infection rates go, I've already posted the studies and numbers in here multiple times in the past so I'm not gong to re-hash it here, but with regards to Covid specifically, vaccinated immunity rapidly falls off after about the 4-month mark while natural immunity takes more than twice as long to do so, on average. And a vaccine booster nearly doubles your odds of catching Covid - and that stat is per the CDC's own numbers. So it would appear to me that the only real benefit one would get from the Covid vaccine is from the initial double-dose, and that only lasts for 4 months. So in a multi-year pandemic, that benefit is nowhere near what most people are making it out to be.

[audiophile]

Apples and oranges HM.

That's different, doing something that harms your body, vs understanding that natural immunity has longer lasting immunity over vaccines for COLD/FLU viruses.

I probably have been within 6 feet of 500,000 people in last the 20 years.

[bmw]

I never have had a FLU shot and I haven't had FLU in 20 years. Nothing beats natural immunity for viruses.

Such a stupid comment. A smoker could say they smoke a pack a day for 20 years and haven't gotten lung cancer, so cigarettes are fine.

Now THAT is an idiotic analogy. While an individual case such as AP's is only an anecdote, a strong immune system - which gets strong in large part due to having antibodies from previous infections - is indeed a strong weapon against viruses. The same can't be said of cigarettes being a weapon against lung cancer.

If your point was nothing more than AP's case is anecdotal, the fine, but you picked an odd example to use.

[Matt]

Immunity really occurs after you have it.

No, it doesn't.

Of course it logically makes sense that a previous infection offers some level of immunity, but so does vaccination.

Well that was an interesting back-pedal. You've multiple times in the past claimed that, and I think your exact phrase was "natural immunity is a myth," so I guess it is nice to see you finally admit that natural immunity is a thing.

As far as re-infection rates go, I've already posted the studies and numbers in here multiple times in the past so I'm not gong to re-hash it here, but with regards to Covid specifically, vaccinated immunity rapidly falls off after about the 4-month mark while natural immunity takes more than twice as long to do so, on average. And a vaccine booster nearly doubles your odds of catching Covid - and that stat is per the CDC's own numbers. So it would appear to me that the only real benefit one would get from the Covid vaccine is from the initial double-dose, and that only lasts for 4 months. So in a multi-year pandemic, that benefit is nowhere near what most people are making it out to be.

It's not a back pedal at all, at least not the way I was reading the initial comment. I read the comment to suggest that you are completely immune if you've had it once. Both vaccines and an infection offers SOME immunity, but it is not permanent.

[bmw]

It's not a back pedal at all, at least not the way I was reading the initial comment. I read the comment to suggest that you are completely immune if you've had it once. Both vaccines and an infection offers SOME immunity, but it is not permanent.

I don't think anybody has ever suggested that natural immunity is absolute or permanent. What has been suggested, however, is that natural immunity lasts longer than vaccinated immunity and that booster shots specifically actually reduce your immunity, at least against catching Covid (it is debatable whether boosters are actually keeping people out of the hospital, though double the infection rate + half the per-case hospitalization rate equals a break-even wash).

I had Covid about 14 months ago now and I haven't been re-infected, at least to the best of my knowledge. Nor have either of my parents. Whether our natural immunity has played a role in the lack of a re-infection, that obviously can't be confirmed, but all 3 of us have had multiple known exposure to people with Covid over the past year. And we're talking what is supposed to be the most contagious variants ever. Again - admittedly anecdotal cases, but the studies do seem to suggest that for a year or more after natural infection, your odds of reinfection are drastically reduced.

Now I haven't looked at these numbers for a while now - but I'd be curious to know if the Covid that is circulating currently is more common in vaccinated+boosted people than in other groups.

[audiophile]

I think China's current problems make it clear, they had a conventional vaccine and had zero Covid policy that locked people in own homes. It didn't work, it just kicked the can down the road.

[Matt]

I think China's current problems make it clear, they had a conventional vaccine and had zero Covid policy that locked people in own homes. It didn't work, it just kicked the can down the road.

You have to be a complete moron to think lockdowns past the initial two weeks should have happened.

[Honeyman]

I never have had a FLU shot and I haven't had FLU in 20 years. Nothing beats natural immunity for viruses.

Such a stupid comment. A smoker could say they smoke a pack a day for 20 years and haven't gotten lung cancer, so cigarettes are fine.

Now THAT is an idiotic analogy. While an individual case such as AP's is only an anecdote, a strong immune system - which gets strong in large part due to having antibodies from previous infections - is indeed a strong weapon against viruses. The same can't be said of cigarettes being a weapon against lung cancer.

If your point was nothing more than AP's case is anecdotal, the fine, but you picked an odd example to use.

It was anecdotal. If you are not in a car accident, it doesn't mean drunk driving isn't an issue. Just because you haven't gotten the flu, hardly means flu shots are unnecessary.

[km1125]

I lost track...

Are we still supposed to be wiping down our mail with Clorox and washing all our grocery boxes and bags when we get them home?

[Matt]

I lost track...

Are we still supposed to be wiping down our mail with Clorox and washing all our grocery boxes and bags when we get them home?

A swing and a miss...

OOOOFFFFFFF

[Turkeytop]

I lost track...

Are we still supposed to be wiping down our mail with Clorox?

No. You're supposed to swallow it.