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The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

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bmw
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The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by bmw » Mon May 16, 2022 11:08 pm

How can politicians simultaneously blame the guns and hate for the recent shootings? If hate is what motivated the crimes, then how in the world is gun control going to help? If someone is driven by hate to massacre a bunch of people, he/she WILL get their hands on a gun. Period.



km1125
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by km1125 » Tue May 17, 2022 8:29 am

Hate isn't the problem, KILLING is the problem!! I can't imagine the numbers of folks who "hate" someone or something, but never take the extreme action of KILLING someone over it.

Does it make anyone less dead if someone didn't use hate as their motive for murder? Is their death somehow less tragic than others where hate was a motive??

The more effort we're putting into controlling "hate" the less effort is going into stopping killing. Where's the priority??



bmw
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by bmw » Tue May 17, 2022 10:26 am

Just to clarify - I'm talking about a few specific recent shootings that were specifically motivated by hatred towards others. My point is, when there is a clear motive in a killing, you can't blame the gun as a person hell bent on killing others is going to kill others. The bigger question here is WHY is that person hell bent on killing others - ie, why is their hatred so strong that it leads to them being able to kill? Is it just some kind of mental illness? Or is there more to it?

And I disagree with the comparison of the hatred I have, say, for certain people who live in my neighborhood and make noise until 2 AM keeping me awake, and the hatred that certain people have towards other people for simply existing and being different than them.



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Honeyman
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by Honeyman » Tue May 17, 2022 10:29 am

And you believe there is nothing wrong with 18 year old kids allowed to purchase military style weapons?


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Bryce
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by Bryce » Tue May 17, 2022 11:49 am

Let's not forget, you don't need a gun to cause massive carnage because of hate. Darrell Brooks Jr. used an SUV to Waukesha to kill six people and injure at least a dozen more. For some reason, no one really focused on the radical and hate filled social media posts Mr. Brooks had made. Nor, did Joe make a trip there.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Colonel Flagg
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by Colonel Flagg » Tue May 17, 2022 12:01 pm

Bryce wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 11:49 am
Let's not forget, you don't need a gun to cause massive carnage because of hate. Darrell Brooks Jr. used an SUV to Waukesha to kill six people and injure at least a dozen more. For some reason, no one really focused on the radical and hate filled social media posts Mr. Brooks had made. Nor, did Joe make a trip there.
If I recall correctly, Jen's excuse for Joe not going to Waukesha was something along the lines of "it would require too many assets" :rolleyes

With any luck, voters in Waukesha will remember that.


"Pretty soon, every kid in America will wish he were me"

km1125
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by km1125 » Tue May 17, 2022 12:59 pm

bmw wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 10:26 am
Just to clarify - I'm talking about a few specific recent shootings that were specifically motivated by hatred towards others. My point is, when there is a clear motive in a killing, you can't blame the gun as a person hell bent on killing others is going to kill others. The bigger question here is WHY is that person hell bent on killing others - ie, why is their hatred so strong that it leads to them being able to kill? Is it just some kind of mental illness? Or is there more to it?

And I disagree with the comparison of the hatred I have, say, for certain people who live in my neighborhood and make noise until 2 AM keeping me awake, and the hatred that certain people have towards other people for simply existing and being different than them.
It's just a number of "degrees of difference" between the hate you have for that neighbor and the hate someone like the Buffalo dude has. With just a bit of research, I'd bet you could find a number local "lawncare" incidents where a similar "hate" for what a neighbor was doing escalated into a confrontation that ended in serious injuries or death. So, do we focus on all the neighbors who have ever uttered a word of "hate" towards their neighbors?? What do we do then? Condemn them? Put them on some list? Stop them from buying hammers and sickles or anything that could possibly be used aggressively?

You're making a H*** assumption and probably a 'leap of faith' in identifying the cause as "simply existing and being different than them." May as well blame it on something his mommy did when he was 6 or 7 years old.

Yes, finding out WHY some of these folks snap is important if we hare ever going to make progress. Printing lots and lots of "stop the hate" banners and saying "stop the hate" in campaign speeches isn't going to get us there. Not by one inch.



km1125
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by km1125 » Tue May 17, 2022 1:01 pm

Bryce wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 11:49 am
Let's not forget, you don't need a gun to cause massive carnage because of hate. Darrell Brooks Jr. used an SUV to Waukesha to kill six people and injure at least a dozen more. For some reason, no one really focused on the radical and hate filled social media posts Mr. Brooks had made. Nor, did Joe make a trip there.
This is very true. I think the Bath Schoolhouse still stands as one of the most deadly attacks ever, and that was almost (over?) 100 years ago!!



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Honeyman
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by Honeyman » Tue May 17, 2022 1:07 pm

Colonel Flagg wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 12:01 pm
Bryce wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 11:49 am
Let's not forget, you don't need a gun to cause massive carnage because of hate. Darrell Brooks Jr. used an SUV to Waukesha to kill six people and injure at least a dozen more. For some reason, no one really focused on the radical and hate filled social media posts Mr. Brooks had made. Nor, did Joe make a trip there.
If I recall correctly, Jen's excuse for Joe not going to Waukesha was something along the lines of "it would require too many assets" :rolleyes

With any luck, voters in Waukesha will remember that.
Unfortunately, if Biden went to every scene of a mass killing, he would have less time to do the job he's already not doing.

Besides, if he went to Waukesha, you guys would bitch it was a publicity stunt in a swing state


The censorship king from out of state.

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FakeAndyStuart
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by FakeAndyStuart » Tue May 17, 2022 1:48 pm

Let's break this down - (and let's be clear, I don't think I have any answers to any of the questions raised here)

1) Could an argument be made that the accessibility of high powered automatic weapons makes these types of events easier for the shooter?

2) You certainly can't say "A good guy with a gun" saved many lives here.

3) Bringing Darrell Brooks Jr. into the conversation is disingenuous. He had a long criminal record and was out on way too low of a bail from his last crime. Payton Gendron had a "clean sheet" as they say on Law and Order.. EXCEPT for that little kerfuffle a year ago, which kinda shows that "red flag" laws are a waste of time. (BTW, probably a mistake for Biden not to go there, but it was the start of the next COVID panic as well as whatever else was going on. First Lady went a few weeks later.)

4) I hate doing the laundry. I hate the Pittsburgh Steelers (and Pirates, and Penguins...) I hate listening to most country music. Hate is an overused word that may have lost its meaning.

5) If I'm reading this correctly (and remember, the first draft of history is ofter quite wrong) this young man believed black and brown people were being brought into this country to replace white people as voters and citizens. So he drove 200 miles to specifically target a black neighborhood where many black and brown people had been living for over 100 years. (Reportedly one of the most segregated places in America)

One of our problems today is always trying to wrap everything into a tight ball so we can label it and "file it" - Left/Right, Con/Lib, Black/White. And if you listen carefully, every single political opening their mouth is not expressing feelings or "thoughts and prayers", she/he is trolling for voters. This young man had some serious issues, issues that cannot be easily swept aside by the words "hate" or "racism."



km1125
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by km1125 » Tue May 17, 2022 4:08 pm

Honeyman wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 1:07 pm
Unfortunately, if Biden went to every scene of a mass killing, he would have less time to do the job he's already not doing.
Exactly. Why is he wasting the time and resouces and pumping all that hurtful CO2 into the air. If he did anything, he should have done it remotely. Not sure why anyone looks to him (or any President) for input or comments on these issues.
Honeyman wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 1:07 pm
Besides, if he went to Waukesha, you guys would bitch it was a publicity stunt in a swing state
Yes, and those folks would be correct because it is just a publicity stunt like all the others.
FakeAndyStuart wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 1:48 pm
Let's break this down - (and let's be clear, I don't think I have any answers to any of the questions raised here)

1) Could an argument be made that the accessibility of high powered automatic weapons makes these types of events easier for the shooter?
Nope. Offhand, I can't think of a SINGLE "mass shooting" that used an automatic weapon. Probably more folks are killed in Chicago annually with automatic weapons than in all mass shootings across the country.
FakeAndyStuart wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 1:48 pm
2) You certainly can't say "A good guy with a gun" saved many lives here.
Not necessarily true. Former BPD officer Aaron Salter Jr. who had a firearm engaged the shooter. We have no idea how many folks he might have saved in doing so. He did end up paying for that action with his life though, so R.I.P. to his soul.
FakeAndyStuart wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 1:48 pm
3) Bringing Darrell Brooks Jr. into the conversation is disingenuous. He had a long criminal record and was out on way too low of a bail from his last crime. Payton Gendron had a "clean sheet" as they say on Law and Order.. EXCEPT for that little kerfuffle a year ago, which kinda shows that "red flag" laws are a waste of time. (BTW, probably a mistake for Biden not to go there, but it was the start of the next COVID panic as well as whatever else was going on. First Lady went a few weeks later.)
Seems like it took them WEEKS to even acknowledge that Brooks' actions were intentional. I was waiting on them to blame it on the car manufacturer.
FakeAndyStuart wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 1:48 pm
4) I hate doing the laundry. I hate the Pittsburgh Steelers (and Pirates, and Penguins...) I hate listening to most country music. Hate is an overused word that may have lost its meaning.
Totally agree. So has the word "terrorism". When EVERY bad think is a "terrorist" act, then there are no true "terrorist" acts.
FakeAndyStuart wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 1:48 pm
5) If I'm reading this correctly (and remember, the first draft of history is ofter quite wrong) this young man believed black and brown people were being brought into this country to replace white people as voters and citizens. So he drove 200 miles to specifically target a black neighborhood where many black and brown people had been living for over 100 years. (Reportedly one of the most segregated places in America)
You're reading (or hearing) what you're being told correctly, but lots of folks jumping to conclusions before the investigation has really ramped up. Since everybody is jumping on the "racial hate crime" angle, what does that say to the 2 of the dead who were not black?? Did their lives not matter?? Are their deaths somehow less tragic and their killing somehow less important as the AG focuses on the racial "hate" angle of the murders??
FakeAndyStuart wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 1:48 pm
One of our problems today is always trying to wrap everything into a tight ball so we can label it and "file it" - Left/Right, Con/Lib, Black/White. And if you listen carefully, every single political opening their mouth is not expressing feelings or "thoughts and prayers", she/he is trolling for voters. This young man had some serious issues, issues that cannot be easily swept aside by the words "hate" or "racism."
100% on board with that bolded part, but also agree with the rest of the quoted area.



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Honeyman
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by Honeyman » Tue May 17, 2022 9:10 pm

This is one reason why you're such a pile of shit:

Nope. Offhand, I can't think of a SINGLE "mass shooting" that used an automatic weapon.

You know the point he is trying to make. You know he means semi-automatic weapon. 20 children were massacred at Sandy Hook.....50+ watching a concert in Vegas....hundreds of other people with an assault weapon. But you choose to play semantics with the murder of completely innocent people.

What a miserable fuck you are.


The censorship king from out of state.

km1125
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by km1125 » Wed May 18, 2022 7:47 am

Honeyman wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 9:10 pm
This is one reason why you're such a pile of shit:

Nope. Offhand, I can't think of a SINGLE "mass shooting" that used an automatic weapon.

You know the point he is trying to make. You know he means semi-automatic weapon. 20 children were massacred at Sandy Hook.....50+ watching a concert in Vegas....hundreds of other people with an assault weapon. But you choose to play semantics with the murder of completely innocent people.

What a miserable fuck you are.
And your definition of an "assault weapon""??...

A big black scary-looking gun??



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Bryce
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by Bryce » Wed May 18, 2022 7:49 am

Honeyman wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 9:10 pm
This is one reason why you're such a pile of shit:

assault weapon.
What a miserable fuck you are.
Guess I am too. The use of the term "assault weapon" pisses me off. It is used by the left to gin up fear among the ignorant and achieve their political objective of gun control.

I have asked, many times, for people on this board that throw that term around to define exactly what an "assault weapon" is. No one has done so to date, because in fact, any weapon that is used in an assault can indeed be defined as an assault weapon. In fact, most the rifles you would consider an "assault weapon" are nothing but a regular old rifle dressed up to look scary.

I can put a couple of spoilers and some fat tires on a stock Malibu. It ain't gonna be a race car.

Are pistols considered an "assault weapon" in your world?


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Honeyman
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by Honeyman » Wed May 18, 2022 8:53 am

This is what you said, twat:


Nope. Offhand, I can't think of a SINGLE "mass shooting" that used an automatic weapon.

This fuck killed these innocent people with a modified semi-automatic weapon. Are you claiming your point is valid?


The censorship king from out of state.

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