Acceptable registrations in the queue through March 16 at 11:00a ET have now been activated. Enjoy! -M.W.

Terms of Use have been amended effective October 6, 2019. Make sure you are aware of the new rules! Please visit this thread for details: https://www.mibuzzboard.com/phpBB3/view ... 16&t=48619

The pandemic will be over by May 1

Debate and discussion of current events and political issues across the U.S. and throughout the World. Be forewarned -- this forum is NOT for the intellectually weak or those of you with thin skins. Don't come crying to me if you become the subject of ridicule. **Board Administrator reserves the right to revoke posting privileges based on my sole discretion**
bmw
Posts: 6725
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:02 am

Re: The pandemic will be over by May 1

Post by bmw » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:31 am

MW - your links largely echo that posted by TC Talks.

But it still doesn't answer 2 key question:

-HOW long?
-Permanent or reversible over time?

TC Talks specifically claimed I "likely" have an increased risk of future heart disease. Right off the bat, the 25% number in your second link disproves that as "likely" would require a greater-than-50% threshold. And I wasn't hospitalized, which the authors of your latter article say health experts don't even know much about that group, re: heart damage. And whether the specific heart damage talked about and "heart disease" are interchangeable is iffy at best.

Now you can say I'm nit-picking here, that I'm missing the bigger point. But this is a long-running pattern of posting on TC Talks' part - exaggerating to the point of being outright false in order to make his points. And that is what I was responding to - his specific, exaggerated claims.



bmw
Posts: 6725
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:02 am

Re: The pandemic will be over by May 1

Post by bmw » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:34 am

btw - I'd love to know what long-term effects the high-anxiety lifestyle of those terrified of Covid are on one's heart and overall long-term health. Anxiety can cause all sorts of physical health problems. Yet it is something rarely discussed when we talk about Covid. And I'd be willing to bet that those most terrified of catching Covid have higher anxiety as a group than those who are mostly just moving on with their normal lives.



User avatar
craig11152
Posts: 2034
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:15 am
Location: Ann Arbor

Re: The pandemic will be over by May 1

Post by craig11152 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:48 am

This won't change anybody's mind but its worth pointing out the science of MRNA vaccines is decades old. So the Covid vaccines weren't just conjured up in a vacuum within the rather short time frame.
The quotes below with a link are from Johns Hopkins


https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-l ... interim%3F
THERE’S A BIG GAP BETWEEN WHEN THE FIRST MRNA FLU VACCINE WAS TESTED IN MICE IN THE 1990S AND WHEN THE FIRST MRNA VACCINES FOR RABIES WERE TESTED IN HUMANS IN 2013. WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE INTERIM?

The early years of mRNA research were marked by a lot of enthusiasm for the technology but some difficult technical challenges that took a great deal of innovation to overcome.

The biggest challenge was that mRNA would be taken up by the body and quickly degraded before it could “deliver” its message—the RNA transcript—and be read into proteins in the cells.

The solution to this problem came from advances in nanotechnology: the development of fatty droplets (lipid nanoparticles) that wrapped the mRNA like a bubble, which allowed entry into the cells. Once inside the cell, the mRNA message could be translated into proteins, like the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, and the immune system would then be primed to recognize the foreign protein.

SO, WHAT HAPPENED ONCE THEY FIGURED OUT THIS TECHNOLOGY?

The first mRNA vaccines using these fatty envelopes were developed against the deadly Ebola virus, but since that virus is only found in a limited number of African countries, it had no commercial development in the U.S.

THEN COVID-19 HIT … WHAT HAPPENED THEN?

Remember, the COVID-19 pandemic spurred manufacturers to develop dozens of potential vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 and brought tremendous increases in funding. Some of those vaccines used traditional methods involving adenovirus as the spike protein delivery system—such as the Johnson & Johnson vector vaccine.

Thanks to decades of research and innovation, mRNA vaccine technology was ready. With COVID, this technology got its moment and has proven to be extremely safe and effective. Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine is the first mRNA product to achieve full FDA approval in the U.S.


I no longer directly engage trolls

User avatar
craig11152
Posts: 2034
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:15 am
Location: Ann Arbor

Re: The pandemic will be over by May 1

Post by craig11152 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:50 am

Reagan4prez wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:01 am
The ignorance is at an all-time high here.
Been admiring yourself in the mirror?


I no longer directly engage trolls

bmw
Posts: 6725
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:02 am

Re: The pandemic will be over by May 1

Post by bmw » Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:09 am

craig11152 wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:48 am
This won't change anybody's mind but its worth pointing out the science of MRNA vaccines is decades old. So the Covid vaccines weren't just conjured up in a vacuum within the rather short time frame.
Equally worth pointing out is that natural immunity - and specifically, immunity naturally created by your own body in response to a novel virus - is millennia old. And against a virus with less than a 1% mortality rate, works pretty damn good.

Also worth pointing out is that the durability of natural immunity against Covid appears to be significantly more durable (87% efficacy after 7 months, and nearly as high after even 12 months - see Table 2 on this CDC link - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... unity.html ) than that of a vaccination against Covid, which wanes to just 47% efficacy after only 5 months - see here - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... ltext#fig2



km1125
Posts: 3570
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:09 pm

Re: The pandemic will be over by May 1

Post by km1125 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:19 pm

Here's what I think is interesting. This (I believe) is a CFR chart for Coronavirus. Seems like we learned a bit in the first couple months on how to treat patients (or, more likely, how NOT to treat patients such as not putting sick folks in the old folks homecare places!). And it looks like we learned a few things through 2020 that brought the rate down to around 1.72%.

However, what have we NOT learned since then that we haven't been able to improve this ONE IOTA since then?? Why hasn't this chart budged over the last year?? Now, factor in that over that same year we had MILLIONS of folks injected with a vaccine which is supposed to lessen symptoms and nearly prevent serious complications or fatalities. Many of those folks are still getting sick, but if they're not progressing to serious or fatal consequences then this chart should be falling off a cliff over the 2021 calendar year. If vaxxed folks really aren't getting seriously ill, then you could essentially remove the vaccinated folks from the data, which would mean the CFR for everyone else would be INCREASING over the last year. WHY IS THAT??

Image

https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_coron ... death_rate



User avatar
TC Talks
Posts: 10104
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:41 am

Re: The pandemic will be over by May 1

Post by TC Talks » Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:17 pm

Honeyman wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:24 am
Sorry MW, but without graphs your information is not valid.
Best post ever


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

User avatar
audiophile
Posts: 8546
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:21 pm
Location: Between 88 and 108 MHz.

Re: The pandemic will be over by May 1

Post by audiophile » Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:56 pm

craig11152 wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:48 am
This won't change anybody's mind but its worth pointing out the science of MRNA vaccines is decades old. So the Covid vaccines weren't just conjured up in a vacuum within the rather short time frame.
The quotes below with a link are from Johns Hopkins


https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-l ... interim%3F
THERE’S A BIG GAP BETWEEN WHEN THE FIRST MRNA FLU VACCINE WAS TESTED IN MICE IN THE 1990S AND WHEN THE FIRST MRNA VACCINES FOR RABIES WERE TESTED IN HUMANS IN 2013. WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE INTERIM?

The early years of mRNA research were marked by a lot of enthusiasm for the technology but some difficult technical challenges that took a great deal of innovation to overcome.

The biggest challenge was that mRNA would be taken up by the body and quickly degraded before it could “deliver” its message—the RNA transcript—and be read into proteins in the cells.

The solution to this problem came from advances in nanotechnology: the development of fatty droplets (lipid nanoparticles) that wrapped the mRNA like a bubble, which allowed entry into the cells. Once inside the cell, the mRNA message could be translated into proteins, like the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, and the immune system would then be primed to recognize the foreign protein.

SO, WHAT HAPPENED ONCE THEY FIGURED OUT THIS TECHNOLOGY?

The first mRNA vaccines using these fatty envelopes were developed against the deadly Ebola virus, but since that virus is only found in a limited number of African countries, it had no commercial development in the U.S.

THEN COVID-19 HIT … WHAT HAPPENED THEN?

Remember, the COVID-19 pandemic spurred manufacturers to develop dozens of potential vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 and brought tremendous increases in funding. Some of those vaccines used traditional methods involving adenovirus as the spike protein delivery system—such as the Johnson & Johnson vector vaccine.

Thanks to decades of research and innovation, mRNA vaccine technology was ready. With COVID, this technology got its moment and has proven to be extremely safe and effective. Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine is the first mRNA product to achieve full FDA approval in the U.S.
This omits the mRNA were designed for cancers but haven't been used because it has created auto-immune disorders.


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

User avatar
craig11152
Posts: 2034
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:15 am
Location: Ann Arbor

Re: The pandemic will be over by May 1

Post by craig11152 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:33 am

audiophile wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:56 pm
craig11152 wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:48 am
This won't change anybody's mind but its worth pointing out the science of MRNA vaccines is decades old. So the Covid vaccines weren't just conjured up in a vacuum within the rather short time frame.
The quotes below with a link are from Johns Hopkins


https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-l ... interim%3F
THERE’S A BIG GAP BETWEEN WHEN THE FIRST MRNA FLU VACCINE WAS TESTED IN MICE IN THE 1990S AND WHEN THE FIRST MRNA VACCINES FOR RABIES WERE TESTED IN HUMANS IN 2013. WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE INTERIM?

The early years of mRNA research were marked by a lot of enthusiasm for the technology but some difficult technical challenges that took a great deal of innovation to overcome.

The biggest challenge was that mRNA would be taken up by the body and quickly degraded before it could “deliver” its message—the RNA transcript—and be read into proteins in the cells.

The solution to this problem came from advances in nanotechnology: the development of fatty droplets (lipid nanoparticles) that wrapped the mRNA like a bubble, which allowed entry into the cells. Once inside the cell, the mRNA message could be translated into proteins, like the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, and the immune system would then be primed to recognize the foreign protein.

SO, WHAT HAPPENED ONCE THEY FIGURED OUT THIS TECHNOLOGY?

The first mRNA vaccines using these fatty envelopes were developed against the deadly Ebola virus, but since that virus is only found in a limited number of African countries, it had no commercial development in the U.S.

THEN COVID-19 HIT … WHAT HAPPENED THEN?

Remember, the COVID-19 pandemic spurred manufacturers to develop dozens of potential vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 and brought tremendous increases in funding. Some of those vaccines used traditional methods involving adenovirus as the spike protein delivery system—such as the Johnson & Johnson vector vaccine.

Thanks to decades of research and innovation, mRNA vaccine technology was ready. With COVID, this technology got its moment and has proven to be extremely safe and effective. Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine is the first mRNA product to achieve full FDA approval in the U.S.
This omits the mRNA were designed for cancers but haven't been used because it has created auto-immune disorders.
I went ahead and provided a link and direct quotes from that link. How about you return the courtesy ?


I no longer directly engage trolls

bmw
Posts: 6725
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:02 am

Re: The pandemic will be over by May 1

Post by bmw » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:23 am

craig11152 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:33 am
I went ahead and provided a link and direct quotes from that link. How about you return the courtesy ?
Did you read either of the links I posted? Or don't they fit your pre-conceived bias? I'll assume from your lack of response that the answer to both questions is "no."



User avatar
audiophile
Posts: 8546
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:21 pm
Location: Between 88 and 108 MHz.

Re: The pandemic will be over by May 1

Post by audiophile » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:38 am

craig11152 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:33 am
audiophile wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:56 pm
craig11152 wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:48 am
This won't change anybody's mind but its worth pointing out the science of MRNA vaccines is decades old. So the Covid vaccines weren't just conjured up in a vacuum within the rather short time frame.
The quotes below with a link are from Johns Hopkins


https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-l ... interim%3F
THERE’S A BIG GAP BETWEEN WHEN THE FIRST MRNA FLU VACCINE WAS TESTED IN MICE IN THE 1990S AND WHEN THE FIRST MRNA VACCINES FOR RABIES WERE TESTED IN HUMANS IN 2013. WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE INTERIM?

The early years of mRNA research were marked by a lot of enthusiasm for the technology but some difficult technical challenges that took a great deal of innovation to overcome.

The biggest challenge was that mRNA would be taken up by the body and quickly degraded before it could “deliver” its message—the RNA transcript—and be read into proteins in the cells.

The solution to this problem came from advances in nanotechnology: the development of fatty droplets (lipid nanoparticles) that wrapped the mRNA like a bubble, which allowed entry into the cells. Once inside the cell, the mRNA message could be translated into proteins, like the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, and the immune system would then be primed to recognize the foreign protein.

SO, WHAT HAPPENED ONCE THEY FIGURED OUT THIS TECHNOLOGY?

The first mRNA vaccines using these fatty envelopes were developed against the deadly Ebola virus, but since that virus is only found in a limited number of African countries, it had no commercial development in the U.S.

THEN COVID-19 HIT … WHAT HAPPENED THEN?

Remember, the COVID-19 pandemic spurred manufacturers to develop dozens of potential vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 and brought tremendous increases in funding. Some of those vaccines used traditional methods involving adenovirus as the spike protein delivery system—such as the Johnson & Johnson vector vaccine.

Thanks to decades of research and innovation, mRNA vaccine technology was ready. With COVID, this technology got its moment and has proven to be extremely safe and effective. Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine is the first mRNA product to achieve full FDA approval in the U.S.
This omits the mRNA were designed for cancers but haven't been used because it has created auto-immune disorders.
I went ahead and provided a link and direct quotes from that link. How about you return the courtesy ?
It is fair for to ask for a link, but I wasn't reading a single article, recently, it was stuff I read for a decade over custom cancer treatments using mRNA. I'm trying to locate older articles, but the results are becoming heavily populated with ones about Covid. Here is one that gives some history, but I hope to find better ones.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the ... cine-race/

Moderna’s promise — and the more than $2 billion it raised before going public in 2018 — hinged on creating a fleet of mRNA medicines that could be safely dosed over and over. But behind the scenes the company’s scientists were running into a familiar problem. In animal studies, the ideal dose of their leading mRNA therapy was triggering dangerous immune reactions — the kind for which Karikó had improvised a major workaround under some conditions — but a lower dose had proved too weak to show any benefits.

Moderna had to pivot. If repeated doses of mRNA were too toxic to test in human beings, the company would have to rely on something that takes only one or two injections to show an effect. Gradually, biotech’s self-proclaimed disruptor became a vaccines company, putting its experimental drugs on the back burner and talking up the potential of a field long considered a loss-leader by the drug industry.


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

User avatar
Rate This
Posts: 13965
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:17 am

Re: The pandemic will be over by May 1

Post by Rate This » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:25 am

bmw wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:09 am
craig11152 wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:48 am
This won't change anybody's mind but its worth pointing out the science of MRNA vaccines is decades old. So the Covid vaccines weren't just conjured up in a vacuum within the rather short time frame.
Equally worth pointing out is that natural immunity - and specifically, immunity naturally created by your own body in response to a novel virus - is millennia old. And against a virus with less than a 1% mortality rate, works pretty damn good.

Also worth pointing out is that the durability of natural immunity against Covid appears to be significantly more durable (87% efficacy after 7 months, and nearly as high after even 12 months - see Table 2 on this CDC link - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... unity.html ) than that of a vaccination against Covid, which wanes to just 47% efficacy after only 5 months - see here - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... ltext#fig2
Clogging up the hospitals is the issue not deaths. For the hundredth time. You want natural immunity? Fine. But you also agree to stay at home and let it run it’s natural course for better or worse. None of this running to a hospital when you were warned repeatedly to get a shot that would likely have made such a trip unnecessary bullshit. If you choose no shot you choose the consequences of that. Destroying or crippling the hospital system at the expense of people who are responsible and need other care or surgery is borderline criminal.

I have zero sympathy for some selfish ignorant asshole who gets this and didn’t try to lessen its likely severity by getting a shot. Actions have consequences. Most of the folks in the hospital are from “The Party of Personal Responsibility (TM)”… good. Take some for once.



hanson
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: The pandemic will be over by May 1

Post by hanson » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:43 am

Rate This wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:25 am

Clogging up the hospitals is the issue not deaths. For the hundredth time.
This is the simple truth. I cannot understand why so many here are unwilling to accept this.



bmw
Posts: 6725
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:02 am

Re: The pandemic will be over by May 1

Post by bmw » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:09 am

Rate This wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:25 am
None of this running to a hospital when you were warned repeatedly to get a shot that would likely have made such a trip unnecessary bullshit. If you choose no shot you choose the consequences of that.
Just to clarify - do you hold this opinion of any person who ends up in the hospital as a consequence of engaging in any of what you would classify as a "risky" behavior? Smoking? Driving drunk? Getting into a bar fight? Eating fast food every day until you have a heart attack?

Or even how about vaccinated people who stop engaging in other precautions?

I'm sorry - but your argument is bullshit. You can't cherry-pick one single subset of people within one single cause of hospitalization (ie, unvaccinated people who get Covid) and say that their use of hospitalization is "borderline criminal" if you're not also going to say that about every single other person who knowingly engages in risky behavior that ultimately leads to hospitalization.



km1125
Posts: 3570
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:09 pm

Re: The pandemic will be over by May 1

Post by km1125 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:12 am

Rate This wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:25 am
... Clogging up the hospitals is the issue not deaths. ...
Ah, so now even DEATHS are not an issue?

Half the issue with "clogging up the hospitals" is that the majority of hospitals have LOST capacity between 2020 and 2022, due to their own actions, like FIRING folks who wouldn't get the shot, even though those SAME folks worked through all of 2020 and most of 2021 and being hailed as 'heros' for doing so. Now, places are so short-staffed that they're calling in SICK folks to work in hospitals. The same big mistake that was made at the beginning when they were throwing sick folks into the old folks' homes!!

We spent BILLIONS of dollars putting together temp medical facilities to handle those sick with COVID, but they went UNUSED (virtually ENTIRELY).

And, if hospitals were doing their job (getting better at treating sick folks), how come the CFR rate didn't decrease AT ALL over ALL of 2021??



Post Reply Previous topicNext topic