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When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

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MotorCityRadioFreak
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Re: When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:34 am

https://youtu.be/vOyB2PyRf-k

Good video from a center right doctor(think Matt but British and believes in masks). These are the real numbers from a real case study.


They/them, non-binary and proud.

Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.

Matt
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Re: When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

Post by Matt » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:15 am

MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:34 am
https://youtu.be/vOyB2PyRf-k

Good video from a center right doctor(think Matt but British and believes in masks). These are the real numbers from a real case study.
I believe that masks exists, but I don't believe fully vaccinated individuals should have to wear masks.


What's more pathetic: harassing an old man who is paying to do a radio show or supporting a grifter like Trump?

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Rate This
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Re: When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

Post by Rate This » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:38 am

Matt wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:15 am
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:34 am
https://youtu.be/vOyB2PyRf-k

Good video from a center right doctor(think Matt but British and believes in masks). These are the real numbers from a real case study.
I believe that masks exists, but I don't believe fully vaccinated individuals should have to wear masks.
In a sure sign they never took psychology they disincentivized getting the shot by giving no reward at the end such as not wearing a mask.



bmw
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Re: When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

Post by bmw » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:43 am

MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:34 am
https://youtu.be/vOyB2PyRf-k

Good video from a center right doctor(think Matt but British and believes in masks). These are the real numbers from a real case study.
Are you suggesting that the numbers from the CDC and CSSE (at Johns Hopkins University) are fake? I'm very amused by how you and others, when you don't like the data that you're seeing, imply it is fake or outright call it "garbage" or "voodoo." Apparently the only "real" numbers are the ones that support your narrative, regardless of the source.



Motown322
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Re: When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

Post by Motown322 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:25 pm

bmw wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:43 am
Are you suggesting that the numbers from the CDC and CSSE (at Johns Hopkins University) are fake? I'm very amused by how you and others, when you don't like the data that you're seeing, imply it is fake or outright call it "garbage" or "voodoo." Apparently the only "real" numbers are the ones that support your narrative, regardless of the source.
Why fault these guys for that? There's an entire political party in this country that subscribes to that theory. :lol:



MotorCityRadioFreak
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Re: When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:57 pm

bmw wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:43 am
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:34 am
https://youtu.be/vOyB2PyRf-k

Good video from a center right doctor(think Matt but British and believes in masks). These are the real numbers from a real case study.
Are you suggesting that the numbers from the CDC and CSSE (at Johns Hopkins University) are fake? I'm very amused by how you and others, when you don't like the data that you're seeing, imply it is fake or outright call it "garbage" or "voodoo." Apparently the only "real" numbers are the ones that support your narrative, regardless of the source.
If you had cared to watch the video, you would see that it was discussing unvaccinated vs vaccinated deaths and said nothing about your age study. However, YOUR constant refusal to look at the facts is maddening. Your lack of intelligence, constant misinformation, and distortions leave me no choice but to block you. Take care.


They/them, non-binary and proud.

Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.

MotorCityRadioFreak
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Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:26 am
Location: Warren, MI

Re: When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:00 pm

Rate This wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:38 am
Matt wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:15 am
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:34 am
https://youtu.be/vOyB2PyRf-k

Good video from a center right doctor(think Matt but British and believes in masks). These are the real numbers from a real case study.
I believe that masks exists, but I don't believe fully vaccinated individuals should have to wear masks.
In a sure sign they never took psychology they disincentivized getting the shot by giving no reward at the end such as not wearing a mask.
The studies certainly explain that mask use is less necessary following a booster. However, I will gladly comply when asked.


They/them, non-binary and proud.

Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.

User avatar
Rate This
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:17 am

Re: When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

Post by Rate This » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:20 pm

MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:00 pm
Rate This wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:38 am
Matt wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:15 am
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:34 am
https://youtu.be/vOyB2PyRf-k

Good video from a center right doctor(think Matt but British and believes in masks). These are the real numbers from a real case study.
I believe that masks exists, but I don't believe fully vaccinated individuals should have to wear masks.
In a sure sign they never took psychology they disincentivized getting the shot by giving no reward at the end such as not wearing a mask.
The studies certainly explain that mask use is less necessary following a booster. However, I will gladly comply when asked.
You’re not an idiot. But you have to bring them along too and they don’t get it that easily.



km1125
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Re: When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

Post by km1125 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:47 am

From the article, RE: "6 daily cases per 100,000 for the vaccinate compared to 17 cases per 100,000 for the unvaccinated.

Public health officials have long said breakthrough cases are inevitable because the vaccines are roughly 90 to 95 percent effective"

With those numbers, doesn't that suggest "natural immunity" is at least 30-32%?



bmw
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Re: When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

Post by bmw » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:43 am

Even if those numbers were accurate (which I don't think they are, at least based on the recent NYT hotspot data), I don't think you can glean anything about the efficacy of natural immunity as you would need to know how many cases per 100k are re-infections of people who previously had Covid but aren't vaccinated.



bmw
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Re: When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

Post by bmw » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:46 am

Can we also now admit that President Biden has done a terrible job at managing Covid?

March 15 through Dec 31, 2020, we averaged 37,123 Covid-related deaths per month
So far, Jan 1 through today, our average is at 38,857 per month.

In other words, the death toll per month has been marginally higher in 2021 than it was in 2020, despite the fact that in 2020 we had no vaccine and less knowledge about the virus. Now with nearly 60% of the population vaccinated, the death toll is literally not falling AT ALL.



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Re: When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

Post by Rate This » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:21 am

bmw wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:46 am
Can we also now admit that President Biden has done a terrible job at managing Covid?

March 15 through Dec 31, 2020, we averaged 37,123 Covid-related deaths per month
So far, Jan 1 through today, our average is at 38,857 per month.

In other words, the death toll per month has been marginally higher in 2021 than it was in 2020, despite the fact that in 2020 we had no vaccine and less knowledge about the virus. Now with nearly 60% of the population vaccinated, the death toll is literally not falling AT ALL.
Caveats being a lagging vaccination rate, lax restrictions and more contagious versions of the virus. Those all make a massive difference… you’re comparing two kinds of apples.



bmw
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Re: When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

Post by bmw » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:58 am

A lagging vaccination rate compared to what? Unreasonable expectations? I'm comparing 2020 to 2021 where the vaccination rates are 0% and 60% respectively. Despite 60% of the population being vaccinated compared to nobody, death tolls are still UP.

As to Delta being more contagious, again, let's compare numbers here:
22 million total reported cases in 2020
26 million total reported cases in 2021

The pandemic didn't really "start" here until about mid-March of 2020, but even being conservative and using March 1 as the benchmark, we've had an extra month of cases in 2021 (11 months compared to 10), so our adjusted total cases for 2021 is more like 24 million.

In other words, total cases in 2021 aren't even up 10% compared to 2020. That makes Delta marginally more contagious at best.

Perhaps most telling is the mortality rate.
22 million cases in 2020 with 355k deaths equals a 1.61% mortality rate
26 million cases in 2021 with 422k deaths equals a ------wait for it------ 1.62% mortality rate

So the mortality rate in 2021, despite 60% of the population now being vaccinated and despite us having more knowledge about the virus than we did in 2020, is virtually identical to the mortality rate in 2020 - at least based on REPORTED cases. Obviously the actual rate is much lower due to the large number of unreported cases, but just comparing reported data from year to year, the mortality rate is unchanged.

Now you may be at least partially correct in your assertion that more lax restrictions are cancelling out the effects of the vaccine on Covid spread, at least as far as case numbers are concerned, but that does NOT explain why the mortality rate remains unchanged.
Last edited by bmw on Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.



km1125
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Re: When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

Post by km1125 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:34 am

bmw wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:43 am
Even if those numbers were accurate (which I don't think they are, at least based on the recent NYT hotspot data), I don't think you can glean anything about the efficacy of natural immunity as you would need to know how many cases per 100k are re-infections of people who previously had Covid but aren't vaccinated.
You're confusing 'naturally-acquired immunity" with just "natural immunity".

I'm wondering, if you took 100 folks who never had COVID and were never vaccinated, and put them in a big room with 100 infected folks, how many of the first 100 folks would show up with COVID within the next week or so. All of them? Half of them? 12% of them?

Now, do the same with 100 folks who are "fully" vaccinated, with 100 infected folks. How many of them will come down with COVID within the next week or so?

Any actual data that would support a calculation for that? Any wild-ass guesses on the numbers?



bmw
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Re: When can we start calling this a pandemic of the vaccinated?

Post by bmw » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:40 am

Oh, you mean people just naturally resistant to catching Covid. I made a post in here about that recently which showed that roughly 10% of healthcare workers were naturally resistant to Covid.

My best guess in the hypothetical scenario you describe would be that 90 out of 100 unvaccinated people would catch it, and on the fully vaccinated side, it would depend on how long ago they were vaccinated. I would bet at least half would catch it.



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