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The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

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Matt
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Re: The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

Post by Matt » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:03 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:43 am
Anyone who is willing to throw his or her livelihood down the drain in favor of avoiding vaccination is a moron.
💯

While I think the mandate is unconstitutional AND an admission that the administration failed to persuade enough Americans to get vaccinated; since they've decided to go that route, why not take it a step further: If you are fired for lack of compliance, you are ineligible for any federal or state assistance.


What's more pathetic: harassing an old man who is paying to do a radio show or supporting a grifter like Trump?

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Re: The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:38 am

...why not take it a step further: If you are fired for lack of compliance, you are ineligible for any federal or state assistance.
Phenomenal suggestion; I'm fully on board with that proposal.



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Re: The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

Post by audiophile » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:44 am

Genius. I guess your risk management services will be in great demand, when companies close up because of worker shortages.


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Re: The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:46 am

How dare you tell them how to protect themselves when they had to put their butt on the line for all of us? Nobody likes a smarta$$, MW!
No one likes a dumbass, either. People who refuse vaccination for no legitimate reason are dumbasses.

By the way:
- I'm not a big fan of Cheetos (haven't eaten any since my teenage years)
- I worked during the entire pandemic, albeit remotely (like many others)
- I did not collect one penny of federal stimulus money, as I earn too much to qualify.

You never mentioned in your first post - the one to which I was responding - that some of the persons in question were health care workers. You edited that post afterward to list that fact. You also didn't mention in that post that the individuals in question had any natural immunity.

The sacrifices health care workers have made during the pandemic are indeed truly impressive and admirable.

The adults who refuse to get vaccinated, have no natural immunity, and have thrown caution to the wind are largely responsible for creating the burden such individuals have faced this summer. Ironically, you seem willing to not just tolerate but condone their irresponsible behavior.



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Re: The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:48 am

Genius. I guess your risk management services will be in great demand, when companies close up because of worker shortages.
Worker shortages are being caused by COVID hospitalizations, COVID deaths, fear of COVID infection, and most significantly by the federal government (and to a lesser extent, state governments) handing out free money like candy in 2020.

Increasing vaccination and cutting off the free money gravy train is the best way to alleviate human resource and supply chain strain, which is precisely why the National Association of Manufacturers and the Business Roundtable (two organizations seldom if ever accused of being "progressive") have announced their support for the type of regulations Biden is seeking to implement.

Those who don't work for the federal government or for health care are not required to get vaccinated; they are required to get weekly testing.

As I said earlier in the week, the proposed regulation is imperfect. But it's better than doing nothing.



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Re: The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

Post by audiophile » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:55 am

I have always supported wearing N95+++ masks, and pulling the stops to protect the elderly and vulnerable (unlike the governor, who sent nursing home patients to the slaughter).

I did mention they already Covid very quickly after the initial posting, or I may have just edited and put brackets around it. I made several other edits that weren't related to that later on.


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Re: The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

Post by audiophile » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:58 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:43 am
...
I was at a football game last night talking about this and universally the people I spoke with (and all of them already had Covid) said they would not take the vaccine and just wait be fired or simply close their business.
..

Your quote contains of my quote that they had Covid already. My last edit was at :07, your post was at :43.
Last edited by audiophile on Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:13 am, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

Post by Chrocket87 » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:04 am

I despise this move. I work as a nurse at a large, nationally-recognized hospital. I’m fully vaccinated, as are about 80 percent of my colleagues at the system I work for. I will encourage people to get the vaccine, but there’s still 20 percent that won’t get it. Almost every single bed at my hospital is full and we already don’t have enough staff to provide SAFE care half the time. If my hospital just loses a few nurses because of this policy, our staffing would be royally fucked, which would lead to worse care for everyone. Do I agree that healthcare workers who decline the vaccine are irresponsible? For the most part, yes. However, regardless of their consequences for leaving, it still leaves the rest of us in a very bad spot.
Last edited by Chrocket87 on Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

Post by audiophile » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:05 am

I agree MW, handing out money like candy was really bad!


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Re: The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

Post by audiophile » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:10 am

I wrote the Covid policy at work and installed HEPA filters, and temporary floor to ceiling room dividers. My co-workers are all vaccinated, but it was, and never will be mandated.


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Re: The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:21 am

Your quote contains of my quote that they had Covid already....
I overlooked that part; my bad.

I still think their alleged willingness to throw away their livelihood is incredibly foolish.

I know you have taken diligent precautions from the get-go (N95 or N100 mask wearing, as an example), and that is certainly appreciated.

Please realize many (not all) of the anti-COVID vaccine folks have taken few or zero precautions during the entire pandemic and that many (not all) feel COVID is "fake" or "not nearly as bad" as portrayed.

One distant relative and a good friend of my father's have both died from COVID as a result of that attitude.
I work as a nurse at a large, nationally-recognized hospital. I’m fully vaccinated, as are about 80 percent of my colleagues at the system I work for. I will encourage people to get the vaccine, but there’s still 20 percent that won’t get it. Almost every single bed at my hospital is full and we already don’t have enough staff to provide SAFE care half the time. If my hospital just loses a few nurses because of this policy, our staffing would be royally fucked, which would lead to worse care for everyone. Do I agree that healthcare workers who decline the vaccine are irresponsible? For the most part, yes. However, regardless of their consequences for leaving, it still leaves the rest of us in a very bad spot.
First - hats off to you and your colleagues for the PHENOMENAL work and sacrifices you have made since the start of the pandemic! :)

You raise a valid point regarding staffing concerns, since your profession is one where mandatory vaccination would indeed be required, and there isn't exactly a bunch of ready-to-hire labor waiting in the wings.

Many hospital systems already do require, or were scheduled to soon begin requiring, mandatory vaccination irrespective of the proposed OSHA rule, so it is difficult to say how much incremental impact the OSHA rule will have if it indeed moves ahead.

Since those coming to the hospital for COVID treatment are already infected, the vaccination status of health care professionals is irrelevant, one would think.

In terms of risk of non-COVID patients contracting COVID from a medical professional as a result of a visit, that risk shouldn't be very high if the non-COVID patient has either (a) received the vaccine or (b) developed natural immunity. Of course, risk is lowest if BOTH individuals are vaccinated.

The greater risk would be from improper sanitization, it would seem to me.

Mandatory vaccination for health care workers is one element of the proposed rule that I would be OK dropping (subject to appropriate testing protocol). As I wrote in one of my posts in the other thread, I also suspect that is the element of the proposed rule most likely to be overturned judicially.



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Re: The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

Post by Matt » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:32 am

audiophile wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:44 am
Genius. I guess your risk management services will be in great demand, when companies close up because of worker shortages.
There's already a worker shortage, and there are plenty of job openings. If vaccine mandates further exasperate that reality, then so be it. I'm not sure I'd want to hire someone who isn't smart enough to take a vaccine that will protect themselves and those around them.


What's more pathetic: harassing an old man who is paying to do a radio show or supporting a grifter like Trump?

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Re: The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

Post by audiophile » Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:02 am

Chrocket87 wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:04 am
I despise this move. I work as a nurse at a large, nationally-recognized hospital. I’m fully vaccinated, as are about 80 percent of my colleagues at the system I work for. I will encourage people to get the vaccine, but there’s still 20 percent that won’t get it. Almost every single bed at my hospital is full and we already don’t have enough staff to provide SAFE care half the time. If my hospital just loses a few nurses because of this policy, our staffing would be royally fucked, which would lead to worse care for everyone. Do I agree that healthcare workers who decline the vaccine are irresponsible? For the most part, yes. However, regardless of their consequences for leaving, it still leaves the rest of us in a very bad spot.
I have a friend that is nurse, she never had Covid that she knows of, but the PPE has protected her. I doubt she is threat to anyone PPE on.


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Re: The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

Post by TC Talks » Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:12 pm

Yet, Biden approval/disapproval is better than Trump's at this point in his only term.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -6179.html

Biden will rebound by reelection. Trump didn't.


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Re: The goal was to make Biden a half-TERM President

Post by TC Talks » Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:13 pm

Matt wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:32 am
audiophile wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:44 am
Genius. I guess your risk management services will be in great demand, when companies close up because of worker shortages.
There's already a worker shortage, and there are plenty of job openings. If vaccine mandates further exasperate that reality, then so be it. I'm not sure I'd want to hire someone who isn't smart enough to take a vaccine that will protect themselves and those around them.
Or, people will feel safer and want to work. Most of the people that I know were not working are concerned of the high percentage of unvaccinated in their workplace.


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