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MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

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Re: MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

Post by Rate This » Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:41 pm

km1125 wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:21 pm
bmw wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:37 pm
Barring a solar flare that takes down the internet and social media for a few years, I don't see it getting better any time soon. It is no coincidence that the rise of "woke" culture coincides with the rise of smart phones and social media.
It's how and why democracies die... Mob rule.

Didn't our founders warn about that?

Not much different than when we really burned witches at the stake, rather than just using the term at a pep rally. Which is worse?
It’s what it looks like when a political movement begins to die (conservatism as we’ve known it since Goldwater) and the other competing faction asserts its dominance. Democracy isn’t dying, the country is simply realigning.



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Re: MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

Post by bmw » Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:47 pm

I completely disagree that conservativism is dying. The issue is that the competing faction as you call it currently has the loudest microphone, in-part because much of mainstream media has transitioned from independent journalism to cheerleading for the left.



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Re: MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

Post by Rate This » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:45 am

bmw wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:47 pm
I completely disagree that conservativism is dying. The issue is that the competing faction as you call it currently has the loudest microphone, in-part because much of mainstream media has transitioned from independent journalism to cheerleading for the left.
So where are the ideas, the plans, anything? You can’t beat something with nothing... all we hear is “this is stupid, why does the world have to change? I hate it”... meanwhile the Democrats may not have the best plans but at least they are proposing doing something instead of going on TV and yelling then blocking everything and saying “see those bloody communist/socialist/marxists can’t get anything done!... oh and tax cuts! Taxes are still too high! We cut them before but elect us because we didn’t cut them enough!”...

As for the media “cheerleading”... conservatism has gone so far to the right that objective journalism and quite frankly the mainstream of society looks pretty left even if it isn’t. Conservatives look for problems with things and then complain loudly about them while proposing NOTHING to solve them. Oh and tax cuts. Always those.

The Republican Party will struggle at a national level until it looks inwardly and figures out how to appeal to a large swath of people that currently want nothing to do with it. Most Democrats are not “The Left” (something conservatives use as a derogatory slur) and might be reachable by a moderate center right party. The current Republicans cannot plausibly do that. They need to cut out the socialist/communist/Marxist schtick as well. Most Democrats aren’t any of those slurs either. They are simply normal people who want to see things improve and the country get a little better than it is now and they see Republicans digging in their heels wanting no part of anything getting done. It’s just like the “they hate our country” line of bullshit” from Trump... uh... if they hated the country they would not want to see things change for the better and the country thrive. That’s a sign of love of country not hate for it. What is a sign of hate for the country is a March towards fascism... there was a guy on Tucker Carlsons show who said “I wouldn’t be surprised if conservatism went full authoritarian fascist in 10-15 years. You can only beat people down for so long”. Tucker agreed with it. That sounds like a way to collapse democracy and the country to me. And conservatives said it... it isn’t liberals putting words in anybody’s mouth. CONSERVATIVES SAID IT.



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Re: MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

Post by Bryce » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:10 am

Rate This wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:34 pm

Voting is a right, picking up tickets is not. Those scenarios are not equivalent.
ELLIGIBLE voting is a right.

The ability to keep and bear arms is a right. There are common sense restrictions placed upon that right. The left wants to place even more. Yet, because it serves their interest, they want voting to be a free for all.

Shall MLB never have a All Star Game in Detroit? Michigan currently has a rule regarding poling places, similar to the new one enacted in Georgia, in which no one may campaign, hand out literature OR on behalf of a candidate HAND OUT WATER within 150 feet of a poling place.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Re: MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

Post by Rate This » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:31 am

Bryce wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:10 am
Rate This wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:34 pm

Voting is a right, picking up tickets is not. Those scenarios are not equivalent.
ELLIGIBLE voting is a right.

The ability to keep and bear arms is a right. There are common sense restrictions placed upon that right. The left wants to place even more. Yet, because it serves their interest, they want voting to be a free for all.

Shall MLB never have a All Star Game in Detroit? Michigan currently has a rule regarding poling places, similar to the new one enacted in Georgia, in which no one may campaign, hand out literature OR on behalf of a candidate HAND OUT WATER within 150 feet of a poling place.
And eligible voting is what happened in 2020 and you lost. Get better ideas and a better sales pitch instead of changing the rules.

There was no giant surge of Democratic voters. They simply mailed it in instead of showing up in person. This is a solution in search of a problem. The GOP seems to think higher vote totals help the Democrats, the evidence doesn’t really support that.



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Re: MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

Post by bmw » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:20 am

You're both wrong - there is no explicit right of individual citizens to vote found in the Constitution. That's the main reason courts never strike down various voting restrictions.

And RT - you're conflating Conservatives with Republicans. The majority of Republicans in Congress aren't all that Conservative. Furthermore, to the extent you argue that Conservatives do nothing but complain and offer up no plans to fix problems - you're forgetting that at the root of Conservatism is the principle that individuals can manage their own lives better than government can, and thus, while Democrats want government control of everything except for abortions, Conservatives often believe on an issue-by-issue basis that there simply is no role for government to play. As such, having no plan IS the plan.



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Re: MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

Post by Rate This » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:51 am

bmw wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:20 am
You're both wrong - there is no explicit right of individual citizens to vote found in the Constitution. That's the main reason courts never strike down various voting restrictions.

And RT - you're conflating Conservatives with Republicans. The majority of Republicans in Congress aren't all that Conservative. Furthermore, to the extent you argue that Conservatives do nothing but complain and offer up no plans to fix problems - you're forgetting that at the root of Conservatism is the principle that individuals can manage their own lives better than government can, and thus, while Democrats want government control of everything except for abortions, Conservatives often believe on an issue-by-issue basis that there simply is no role for government to play. As such, having no plan IS the plan.
But they used to have all kinds of plans... even as recently as George W. Bush... then it all just kind of stopped.

And if you can conflate Democrats and “The Left” which is a term so vague I’m not really sure what it means then so can I. Seriously... true liberals like Bernie and AOC and blue dogs like Joe Manchin and Kiersten Sinema are really all part of “the left”? That’s one inclusive tent then. Pardon me for trying to make conservatism so wide a net. :roll:

The main reason courts rarely strike restrictions down is that elections are typically conducted and run on a state or local level. The argument for HR1/S1 is going to be that congress may regulate the time and manner of elections which IS in the constitution and that federal law overrides state law.



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Re: MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

Post by TC Shuts Up » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:23 am

Unless you want to cheat and steal elections, it is not necessary to let anyone legal or not vote hundreds of times. That is what they are trying to stop in Georgia. Because when they see what the Democrats do, they will not be able to legally win any election again, because they can't compete with freedom and Capitalism (not including Corporatism and their monopolies) in the arena of ideas.


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Re: MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

Post by Bryce » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:33 am

bmw wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:20 am
You're both wrong - there is no explicit right of individual citizens to vote found in the Constitution.
While the right to vote isn't explicit in the COTUS, like say the right to keep arms, several amendments have, in the case an election is held, prohibited excluding various groups of people from said vote.

That said, the Georgia law is not at odds with those provisions.

Requiring identification for an absentee ballot is not disenfranchisement.

Limiting and setting regulations for the use of drop boxes, which were originally used because of the pandemic, is not disenfranchisement.
Last edited by Bryce on Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Re: MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

Post by Rate This » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:37 am

Bryce wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:33 am
bmw wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:20 am
You're both wrong - there is no explicit right of individual citizens to vote found in the Constitution.
While the right to vote isn't explicit in the COTUS, like say the right to keep arms, several amendments have, in the case an election is held, prohibited excluding various groups of people from said vote.

That said, the Georgia law is not at odds with those provisions.
It’s not designed to explicitly ban groups from voting. It’s designed to throw a wrench in and gum up the works.



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Re: MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

Post by Bryce » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:39 am

Rate This wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:37 am
Bryce wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:33 am
bmw wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:20 am
You're both wrong - there is no explicit right of individual citizens to vote found in the Constitution.
While the right to vote isn't explicit in the COTUS, like say the right to keep arms, several amendments have, in the case an election is held, prohibited excluding various groups of people from said vote.

That said, the Georgia law is not at odds with those provisions.
It’s not designed to explicitly ban groups from voting. It’s designed to throw a wrench in and gum up the works.
Requiring identification for an absentee ballot is not disenfranchisement.

Limiting and setting regulations for the use of drop boxes, which were originally used because of the pandemic, is not disenfranchisement.

Expanding weekend voting certainly isn't disenfranchisement.

These provisions treat everyone equally and greatly reduce the chances of fraud.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Re: MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

Post by bmw » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:56 am

I give credit to the Democrat party for one thing - something that the Republican party (with Donald Trump being the exception) - they band together and fight with a backbone of steel. When the going gets tough, most Republicans whimper in the nearest corner.

In the case of Georgia, Democrats finally hold some national power there, and they do NOT plan on giving up said power. They recognize how important the state is to holding majorities in Congress and possibly even to electing a President in 2024, so they do what they know best - bust out the race card, and play it, and play it, and play it some more. And the media is all too willing to play along. This isn't about what is right or wrong or about justice - it is about consolidating and holding on to power. The black population, whether they want to admit it, is nothing more than a pawn in the Democrat party's quest for power.

All that said, Bryce is right - there is absolutely nothing in the Georgia election law revisions that even remotely encroaches on disenfranchisement or unequal treatment based on race. I'm sure RT will argue that this legislation is everything I accuse Democrats of - that being, a quest to take back power that they're unhappy that they lost. And while there may be a shred of truth to that behind the scenes, the bottom line is that Republicans still control the state legislature there, and absent a Constitutional right to vote, this is just how the game is played. If Dems want to write the election laws in the state of Georgia, then they need to win some state-level elections.



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Re: MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

Post by Rate This » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:34 pm

bmw wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:56 am
I give credit to the Democrat party for one thing - something that the Republican party (with Donald Trump being the exception) - they band together and fight with a backbone of steel. When the going gets tough, most Republicans whimper in the nearest corner.

In the case of Georgia, Democrats finally hold some national power there, and they do NOT plan on giving up said power. They recognize how important the state is to holding majorities in Congress and possibly even to electing a President in 2024, so they do what they know best - bust out the race card, and play it, and play it, and play it some more. And the media is all too willing to play along. This isn't about what is right or wrong or about justice - it is about consolidating and holding on to power. The black population, whether they want to admit it, is nothing more than a pawn in the Democrat party's quest for power.

All that said, Bryce is right - there is absolutely nothing in the Georgia election law revisions that even remotely encroaches on disenfranchisement or unequal treatment based on race. I'm sure RT will argue that this legislation is everything I accuse Democrats of - that being, a quest to take back power that they're unhappy that they lost. And while there may be a shred of truth to that behind the scenes, the bottom line is that Republicans still control the state legislature there, and absent a Constitutional right to vote, this is just how the game is played. If Dems want to write the election laws in the state of Georgia, then they need to win some state-level elections.
I will argue that. Even more importantly I will argue that the Republicans are ruthless and stop at nothing to get their way especially with McConnell running the show of late. They only get stopped in the courts not by Democrats blocking them. If anything the Democrats are too nice and tend to not go hardball the way Republicans do. I wish they would do so. Kill the filibuster and ram through their agenda. The Republicans would do it in a heartbeat if it gave them an advantage. The Democrats are going to be nice and restore it to a talk till you drop thing the way it was meant to be. They will also push the voting bill through based on the constitutional language about congress regulating election procedures which supersedes state laws. Republicans pass laws with the intent of overreaching and having their stacked courts weigh in favorably to them. That’s why they wanted 6-3 so bad.



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Re: MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

Post by jadednihilist » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:11 pm

bmw wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:18 pm
Context. It is unfortunate that the Politifact article left out the text immediately preceding the text in question, and I can't believe that the law professors and scholars quoted by Politifact don't make reference to this:
SECTION 33.
Said chapter is further amended by revising subsections (a) and (e) of Code Section 21-2-414, relating to restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling within the vicinity of a polling place, cellular phone use prohibited, prohibition of candidates from entering certain polling places, and penalty, as follows:

(a) No person shall solicit votes in any manner or by an...
So if you look at what SB 202 is doing, it is simply amending election law by adding to it the underlined sections, which in this case, adds money and gifts to the list of things prohibited from being handed out by people or groups ENGAGED IN CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES OR PUBLIC OPINION POLLING.

The original law starts out as follows: 21-2-414. Restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling within the vicinity of a polling place; cellular phone use prohibited; prohibition of candidates from entering certain polling places; penalty

So while the phrase "any person" immediately precedes the giving out of food and/or drink, that "any person" is still restricted by the prior language limiting the provision to people engaged in campaign activities or public polling. As such, I think that if anyone were ever cited for illegally giving out food or water to somebody standing in line to vote that a court would toss out such a charge if the person handing out the food and/or water wasn't engaged in campaign activities or public polling.
Thank you for the clarification. It's a shame that the law is written so convolutedly. I would hope that courts toss any case described out.


I'm here for a good, hearty debate, to agree and disagree respectfully, and commiserate on the current state of terrestrial radio.

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Re: MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

Post by jadednihilist » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:21 pm

Bryce wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:33 am
bmw wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:20 am
You're both wrong - there is no explicit right of individual citizens to vote found in the Constitution.
While the right to vote isn't explicit in the COTUS, like say the right to keep arms, several amendments have, in the case an election is held, prohibited excluding various groups of people from said vote.

That said, the Georgia law is not at odds with those provisions.

Requiring identification for an absentee ballot is not disenfranchisement.

Limiting and setting regulations for the use of drop boxes, which were originally used because of the pandemic, is not disenfranchisement.
This is largely an argument on semantics. However, I fail to understand the strong resistance to making voting easier and more convenient without sacrificing the integrity of the ballot. We face a crisis of a large disaffected population. It would seem to me that inclusion, accessibility, and prioritizing the voice of the people would go a long way in fixing our current broken state of affairs.

I'd love for nothing more for there to be a return to a culture of working together to solve problems. The arguing wouldn't stop, and it shouldn't because arguing is great, but it would be far less toxic than what we have right now.


I'm here for a good, hearty debate, to agree and disagree respectfully, and commiserate on the current state of terrestrial radio.

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