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Please explain..

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Mark Elliott
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Please explain..

Post by Mark Elliott » Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:22 am

Why four years ago, everyone was okay with network projections of the winner (acceptance speech 2:35am Saturday morning after his opponent conceded) but today no?



zzand
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Re: Please explain..

Post by zzand » Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:27 am

I don't think everyone was ok with it four years ago. Democrats were not ok with it just as Republicans are not ok with it four years later.



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Bryce
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Re: Please explain..

Post by Bryce » Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:59 am

Well, I can give you an explanation of why I'm circumspect of the networks "anointment" of Joe Biden.

First, in 2008 a newcomer to national politics, Barak (Hope And Change) Obama, energized and excited much of the country and attained what I would call "Rock Star Status." His rallies were nothing short of Beatlemania. He drove vote totals to a height that was never seen before. He earned 69,498,516 votes in the 2008 Presidential Election, the highest vote total ever for a Presidential candidate.

Now comes 2020 and there is a candidate that was quite a bit short of "Rock Star Status." His rallies were lackluster and failed to draw much of a crowd. Much of his campaigning was done from his basement. Media cheerleaders aside, most of his support came from people that didn't so much love Joe (More Of The Same) Biden, or even really like him, but from people that hated Donald Trump. Given this, I find it very hard to believe that this candidate garnered a record breaking 74,446,452 votes. Millions more than Barak (Hope And Change) Obama. That level of excitement for Joe just wasn't there.

This coupled with the fact that the Republican down ticket did quite well in general. Actually, not quite well, it was more like outstanding when you look at the "Blue Wave" projections. Democrats were projected to add to their lead in the House and flip the Senate. Neither one happened. In fact, republicans picked up a fair number of seats in the House and will most likely retain control of the Senate although having many more seats in play than the Democrats did.

Given all of the above, the many reports of irregularities and fraud, the votes that have yet to be counted, I don't think the self important media, who fancy themselves King Makers, should be calling anything yet.


Brace yourselves. Winter is coming.

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Mark Elliott
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Re: Please explain..

Post by Mark Elliott » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:34 am

zzand wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:27 am
I don't think everyone was ok with it four years ago. Democrats were not ok with it just as Republicans are not ok with it four years later.
But that didn't stop the Democratic candidate from conceding right after the networks called the election early Weds. morning.
Bryce wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:59 am
Well, I can give you an explanation of why I'm circumspect of the networks "anointment" of Joe Biden.
Anyone can read your explanation above, and while I may agree with some parts of it, you've missed 2016 - Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania had much slimmer margins, but the winning candidate didn't hesitate to "declare victory" at 2:35am Wednesday morning right after the networks called it.

I'm in full agreement that all possible voter irregularities be investigated and reported, with full transparency. But claiming "the networks shouldn't anoint the winner" is just plain hypocrisy.



zzand
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Re: Please explain..

Post by zzand » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:59 am

Let's be honest, the only entity that should declare a winner is the Federal Election Commission after all votes are certified which is 10 days after the election and it will be longer this time while thew legal BS bogs it down. Networks shouldn't be crowning anyone a winner.



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Re: Please explain..

Post by Rate This » Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:06 am

zzand wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:59 am
Let's be honest, the only entity that should declare a winner is the Federal Election Commission after all votes are certified which is 10 days after the election and it will be longer this time while thew legal BS bogs it down. Networks shouldn't be crowning anyone a winner.
It isn’t very hard to figure out what’s left against the size of the lead and make a projection. It is extremely hard to overcome a deficit in the tens of thousands of ballots in the courts even if there were irregularities which no Republican seems to be able to offer Any evidence of.



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Mark Elliott
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Re: Please explain..

Post by Mark Elliott » Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:46 am

zzand wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:59 am
Let's be honest, the only entity that should declare a winner is the Federal Election Commission
Thanks so much for playing, sorry you didn't win, but here's a copy of the home game for you to practice on before your next appearance.
The Federal Election Commission (FEC) is the independent regulatory agency charged with administering and enforcing the federal campaign finance law. The FEC has jurisdiction over the financing of campaigns for the U.S. House, Senate, Presidency and the Vice Presidency.
https://www.fec.gov



zzand
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Re: Please explain..

Post by zzand » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:26 am

Ok fine, but it sure isn't up to AP, CNN, MSNBC, Fox etc, etc to declare the winner.



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Re: Please explain..

Post by Rate This » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:32 am

zzand wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:26 am
Ok fine, but it sure isn't up to AP, CNN, MSNBC, Fox etc, etc to declare the winner.
However that’s become our standard for understanding who won. It doesn’t make it legally official. It just gives us an idea of who won. Nobody wants to sit there for 2 months waiting for certification.



zzand
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Re: Please explain..

Post by zzand » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:44 am

I agree, but if memory serves, Gore waited a month to give a concession of the the election and then I think the courts decision is what made him finally give up. I think it may well be the same this time.



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Re: Please explain..

Post by Rate This » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:57 am

zzand wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:44 am
I agree, but if memory serves, Gore waited a month to give a concession of the the election and then I think the courts decision is what made him finally give up. I think it may well be the same this time.
The issue there was quite verifiable though... those insane hanging chads from the punch cards. Here the issue is not at all verifiable because no evidence is being offered at all. Gore gave up after the Supreme Court ruling for the good of the country despite having more ways to challenge it... a very statesman like thing to do... Trump is no statesman.



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Mark Elliott
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Re: Please explain..

Post by Mark Elliott » Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:06 pm

zzand wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:26 am
Ok fine, but it sure isn't up to AP, CNN, MSNBC, Fox etc, etc to declare the winner.
Maybe not but let me slap you right across the facts...

President Trump had NO problem letting the above declare HIM the winner four years ago.

You can't have it both ways. Either tell me he was wrong then or wrong now.



zzand
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Re: Please explain..

Post by zzand » Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:56 am

Wrong then and now. We need a National Election Commission who is the authority on calling the winner. As a member of the media I have never thought the media should be in charge of calling the winner especially in this era when most slant one way or the other. I started feeling that a National Commission was needed back during the Gore debacle. Sorry that I don't feel the way you do that the media is the final word, our job is to report facts and the facts only not be king or queen makers.



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audiophile
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Re: Please explain..

Post by audiophile » Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:44 am

Amen!


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

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Mark Elliott
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Re: Please explain..

Post by Mark Elliott » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:28 am

zzand wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:56 am
Wrong then and now. ... Sorry that I don't feel the way you do that the media is the final word, our job is to report facts and the facts only not be king or queen makers.
I really love what I'm about to say - I fully agree. In no way do I think the "media" should do anything but report the facts. The focus on polling and predicting is out of control and no, the media should NOT decide who the winner is. So I agree with you.. and perhaps you should get a glass of water and sit down now.

The problem is the current Constitution and the Electoral College. It leaves no room for national control of any elections. Any attempt to create a National Election Commission would be a non starter for the strict "Constitutionalists" now sitting on the Supreme Court.

BTW those same folks would have nothing to say about "court packing," Congress decides how many and how Supreme Court "judges" serve - I don't believe even the word "Justice" is in the document.



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