I'm mask-less and proud

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We know based on the science that masks are useless.

We know based on the science that fewer people are dying.

Most hospitals have little to no COVID-19 patients.

Skippy, care to back any of this up? I can certainly show you something that says the preceding three statements were not very close to the truth.

$5 he can’t...

Oh, and there's another one where that came from too.

In other words... no you can’t back it up skippy.

[Deleted User 15342]

I’m going to a restaurant today to treat my family for my 94 year old mother’s birthday. None of us have a mask and we all refuse to wear one, the restaurant does not require a mask and there’s a bar in this restaurant. If a business refuses anyone because they don’t wear a mask it’s their loss and deserves to go out of business.

[Turkeytop]

I’m going to a restaurant today to treat my family for my 94 year old mother’s birthday. None of us have a mask and we all refuse to wear one, the restaurant does not require a mask and there’s a bar in this restaurant. If a business refuses anyone because they don’t wear a mask it’s their loss and deserves to go out of business.

Kind of tricky, eating with a mask on.

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I’m going to a restaurant today to treat my family for my 94 year old mother’s birthday. None of us have a mask and we all refuse to wear one, the restaurant does not require a mask and there’s a bar in this restaurant. If a business refuses anyone because they don’t wear a mask it’s their loss and deserves to go out of business.

The better question is what state is it in?

[bmw]

Peer reviewed study on the effectiveness of government-mandated mask-wearing:

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.13 ... e-aEEsUh0E

The conclusion?

Mandating face mask use in public is associated with a decline in the daily COVID-19 growth rate by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage-points in 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, 16–20, and 21+ days after signing, respectively.

So there you have it. Mandated mask-wearing results in whopping TWO PERCENT decline in the daily infection rate 3 weeks after such measures go into effect. They also estimate that " as many as 230,000–450,000 COVID-19 cases possibly averted By May 22, 2020 by these mandates." Let's say that the middle number, 340,000 is accurate. Considering that upwards of 30 million Americans have probably already had the virus, that number is a drop in the bucket and only marginally delays the inevitable.

I am convinced as ever that HERD IMMUNITY is literally the ONLY viable long-term solution. And if individual immunity only lasts 2-3 years, we may actually be doing more harm than good if we slow the spread to a rate less than what is required to reach herd immunity (ie, if the first people who had it have their individual immunity run out before we reach herd immunity).

[Rate This]

Peer reviewed study on the effectiveness of government-mandated mask-wearing:

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.13 ... e-aEEsUh0E

The conclusion?

Mandating face mask use in public is associated with a decline in the daily COVID-19 growth rate by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage-points in 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, 16–20, and 21+ days after signing, respectively.

So there you have it. Mandated mask-wearing results in whopping TWO PERCENT decline in the daily infection rate 3 weeks after such measures go into effect. They also estimate that " as many as 230,000–450,000 COVID-19 cases possibly averted By May 22, 2020 by these mandates." Let's say that the middle number, 340,000 is accurate. Considering that upwards of 30 million Americans have probably already had the virus, that number is a drop in the bucket and only marginally delays the inevitable.

I am convinced as ever that HERD IMMUNITY is literally the ONLY viable long-term solution. And if individual immunity only lasts 2-3 years, we may actually be doing more harm than good if we slow the spread to a rate less than what is required to reach herd immunity (ie, if the first people who had it have their individual immunity run out before we reach herd immunity).

Even Sweden regretted using the herd immunity approach... 340,000 cases is still a lot of cases and a not insignificant number of death too... with numbers that big I think the study you cite actually advocates for mask wearing...

The findings suggest that requiring face mask use in public might help in mitigating COVID-19 spread.

[bmw]

I still contend Sweden got it right. In the end, they'll reach herd immunity before anybody else while having far fewer long-term unintended consequences.

EDIT - your edit requires me to edit:

The question is, IN THE END, will the same number of people get the virus anyways? What difference does it make really if those 340,000 people get it now or next month?

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I still contend Sweden got it right. In the end, they'll reach herd immunity before anybody else while having far fewer long-term unintended consequences.

EDIT - your edit requires me to edit:

The question is, IN THE END, will the same number of people get the virus anyways? What difference does it make really if those 340,000 people get it now or next month?

The hospital capacity remains the issue and in the 4 big states seeing a surge right now ICU capacity is nearly or is maxed out. Letting it run wild uncontrolled wouldn’t work well in an older population like ours. Especially when much of that older population won’t isolate or wear a mask. If Trump were smart he’d be trying to take perfect care of his core constituency by encouraging mask use to the hilt, leading by example and wearing one himself and taking this damn seriously. Regardless of Party those governors that did so saw a massive bump. Trump missed the bus on that one. It was re-election gift wrapped for him.

[Deleted User 14896]

Let me preface this by saying I don't always wear a mask in places. Mostly because I forget it when I'm going in. Or if it's somewhere that I'm not going to be close to others, I go maskless.

But in the great "Wear or Wear Not" discussions, something is being forgotten. And I believe many businesses don't even realize.

You have to do what the business tells you. It's their store. It's not about what the government mandates. It's what the store or restaurant says.

This is silly but true:
If an establishment decides you must dye your hair purple and wear a pink tu-tu to enter, they have the full legal right to call the cops and have you removed if you don't comply. And then have you charged with trespassing.

I know it's a silly example. But I did it to make the point. And it is true.

[Rate This]

Let me preface this by saying I don't always wear a mask in places. Mostly because I forget it when I'm going in. Or if it's somewhere that I'm not going to be close to others, I go maskless.

But in the great "Wear or Wear Not" discussions, something is being forgotten. And I believe many businesses don't even realize.

You have to do what the business tells you. It's their store. It's not about what the government mandates. It's what the store or restaurant says.

This is silly but true:
If an establishment decides you must dye your hair purple and wear a pink tu-tu to enter, they have the full legal right to call the cops and have you removed if you don't comply. And then have you charged with trespassing.

I know it's a silly example. But I did it to make the point. And it is true.

The same goes with speech. “I’m exercising my Freedom of speech!“ works when talking to the government but not when talking to a private entity. Many many people don’t understand that private businesses get almost total leeway to enforce the behaviors they wish to allow or forbid.

[UP906]

And yet... gay wedding cakes anyone?

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And yet... gay wedding cakes anyone?

However when race or sexuality are dragged into it the can of worms is a bit different...

[UP906]

Why?

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Why?

We have laws against discrimination. Work to get them changed if you don’t like that. I just report the facts.

[UP906]

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Many many people don’t understand that private businesses get almost total leeway to enforce the behaviors they wish to allow or forbid.
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Yeah... almost.