Let's talk about Sweden

[Turkeytop]

Herd Immunity In Sweden within weeks?

https://thehill.com/changing-america/we ... 2CUuEirGGs

That's nothing. Mike Pence says it will be all over by June, in the U.S.

Of course he qualified his prediction by saying it will depend on people following social distancing guidelines. The same guidelines your President is urging people to protest against.


[

b]Pence Says Coronavirus Outbreak Could Be Over by Memorial Day
[/b]

Vice President Mike Pence said he thinks the U.S. coronavirus outbreak could be over by the nation’s Memorial Day holiday on May 25.

“I truly do believe that if we all continue to do that kind of social distancing and other guidance broadly from federal and state officials, that we’re going to put this coronavirus in the past,” Pence said on Geraldo Rivera’s radio show Friday. “I believe by early June we’re going to see our nation largely past this epidemic.

“I think honestly, if you look at the trends today, that I think by Memorial Day weekend we will have this coronavirus epidemic behind us,” he added.

There have been more than 869,000 cases of the disease in the U.S., home to the world’s largest outbreak, and the total is still increasing. There were more than 29,000 cases reported on Thursday, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... morial-day

[bmw]

Even the BBC wrote a pretty fair piece just 2 hours ago.

The headline? Coronavirus: Has Sweden got its science right?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52395866

[Rate This]

Even the BBC wrote a pretty fair piece just 2 hours ago.

The headline? Coronavirus: Has Sweden got its science right?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52395866

It really depends on if you can get it again. If you can than this herd immunity amounts to not even a mountain of beans...

[km1125]

Hmmm... about the same size population as Michigan, yet Michigan has twice as many confirmed infections and twice as many deaths.

[audiophile]

Might be difference in DNA of the population. OR maybe they are not as overweight?

[bmw]

It really depends on if you can get it again. If you can than this herd immunity amounts to not even a mountain of beans...

...same would apply to a vaccine.

[Rate This]

It really depends on if you can get it again. If you can than this herd immunity amounts to not even a mountain of beans...

...same would apply to a vaccine.

That’s just as valid as well... I think this the 64,000 question we face now...

[bmw]

One place where lockdown did work is Australia. 25 million citizens. Death toll of only 76 people. And they're very nearly on the bottom of their curve, now reporting only around 10 new cases a day.

I continue to theorize that warm, humid weather plays a role. They've been in their hot summer months throughout. Not to mention, Australia is completely surrounded by water and thus has a much easier time controlling travel over their border.

[MWmetalhead]

Sweden does have guidelines in place, and the government is now conducting thorough inspections of businesses to ensure those guidelines are being followed.

In Stockholm alone, over 200 restaurants have been inspected within the past 2 weeks.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... n-who-says

Also, health outcomes in Sweden are not as rosy as what bmw is painting:
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-swe ... tly-2020-4

Headline:
"Sweden has nearly 10 times the number of COVID-19-related deaths than its Nordic neighbors. Here's where it went wrong."

Norway and Finland have been much more successful at limiting fatalities from COVID-19 than Sweden!

Excerpt:

Sweden's controversial coronavirus strategy has led to nearly 10 times the number of deaths of other Nordic countries — and it serves as a counterargument to US citizens calling for their country to reopen.

Sweden has yet to order any lockdowns amid the novel coronavirus pandemic, according to AFP. The country has left schools, restaurants, and gyms open, and while the government banned gatherings over 50 people and urged residents to self-isolate, life appears to be largely unchanged.

Sweden's lack of strict lockdowns contrasts sharply with the rest of Europe, and it has yet to see a downturn in COVID-19 cases. The country — which has a population of about 10.2 million — has seen 15,322 cases and 1,765 deaths from the virus so far, making the death rate per capita at 17.3 deaths per 100,000 people.

Sweden's Nordic neighbors Norway and Finland approached the virus differently, and it could be why they're facing just a fraction of COVID-19-related deaths.

I guess I don't accept the notion that every element of modern American society - without exception - should be governed by a piece of paper written in the late 1700's.

The Constitution is a GREAT document, but its contents cannot always be practically applied to modern problems, and it is also a document where ambiguity sometimes exists.

[Rate This]

Ouch.

[MWmetalhead]

I continue to theorize that warm, humid weather plays a role. They've been in their hot summer months throughout. Not to mention, Australia is completely surrounded by water and thus has a much easier time controlling travel over their border.

These are all valid points, in my opinion.

[bmw]

Sweden's death toll is higher because their actual infection rate is higher. And if the end-goal is herd immunity (which Sweden claims it is), then this is just the cost of achieving that goal.

Mark my words - a year out, Sweden's per-capita death rate will be the same as everywhere else. The only difference is that Sweden is getting there faster.

Also - I know that everybody who is criticizing Sweden is limiting their comparison to Norway and Finland. But when compared to ALL of Europe, Sweden's per-capita death rate is right in the middle of the pack. Not to mention, the state of Michigan's per-capita death rate is more than double that of Sweden. And we have some of the strictest lockdown restrictions in our country.

As to your view on the US Constitution, you and will have to agree to disagree. You are correct in that people alive in the 1700s couldn't forsee 21st century technology or problems, but that's why our founders included an amendment process. The Constitution, in my view, is quite literally the lone firewall between freedom and tyranny. Without it, I think the US as a nation would have fallen decades ago. I also think that the moment you start to make exceptions without formally amending it, the document immediately becomes worthless and the ultimate slippery slope ensues.

[audiophile]

^^^^LIKE^^^^

[Rate This]

Sweden's death toll is higher because their actual infection rate is higher. And if the end-goal is herd immunity (which Sweden claims it is), then this is just the cost of achieving that goal.

Mark my words - a year out, Sweden's per-capita death rate will be the same as everywhere else. The only difference is that Sweden is getting there faster.

Also - I know that everybody who is criticizing Sweden is limiting their comparison to Norway and Finland. But when compared to ALL of Europe, Sweden's per-capita death rate is right in the middle of the pack. Not to mention, the state of Michigan's per-capita death rate is more than double that of Sweden. And we have some of the strictest lockdown restrictions in our country.

As to your view on the US Constitution, you and will have to agree to disagree. You are correct in that people alive in the 1700s couldn't forsee 21st century technology or problems, but that's why our founders included an amendment process. The Constitution, in my view, is quite literally the lone firewall between freedom and tyranny. Without it, I think the US as a nation would have fallen decades ago. I also think that the moment you start to make exceptions without formally amending it, the document immediately becomes worthless and the ultimate slippery slope ensues.

What we actually needed quite a long time ago is a second constitutional convention.

[audiophile]

Says who?