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The Democrats' single biggest problem

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bmw
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The Democrats' single biggest problem

Post by bmw » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:52 pm

They have many, but the one glaring problem that I don't think they will ever figure out how to fix, at least not this election cycle - and that is that Donald Trump dominates the daily news cycle. There's a Democratic party debate on live tv, and I flip to MSNBC (I don't know why I torture myself doing that, but alas), and what are they doing? Trashing Trump.

All this week - a week which traditionally would have been dominated by news of the winner of the Iowa Caucus, has been largely dominated by Donald Trump - from the SOTU address to his acquittal, to his response to the acquittal. Only news the Dems manage to get is how they can't manage a caucus.

This is going to be a real problem for Democrats moving forward. Even their own allies in the media are doing more Trump trashing than they are actually talking about anything positive about the Democrats.



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Re: The Democrats' single biggest problem

Post by Turkeytop » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:37 am

Trump in 2020. America adores Trump.


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Re: The Democrats' single biggest problem

Post by Rate This » Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:28 am

bmw wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:52 pm
They have many, but the one glaring problem that I don't think they will ever figure out how to fix, at least not this election cycle - and that is that Donald Trump dominates the daily news cycle. There's a Democratic party debate on live tv, and I flip to MSNBC (I don't know why I torture myself doing that, but alas), and what are they doing? Trashing Trump.

All this week - a week which traditionally would have been dominated by news of the winner of the Iowa Caucus, has been largely dominated by Donald Trump - from the SOTU address to his acquittal, to his response to the acquittal. Only news the Dems manage to get is how they can't manage a caucus.

This is going to be a real problem for Democrats moving forward. Even their own allies in the media are doing more Trump trashing than they are actually talking about anything positive about the Democrats.
The thing is that as this primary sorts itself out it’ll become more clear that the Democrats do have ideas and plans that are more comprehensive and thought out than Trumps, So they’ll overcome this one. The folks on MSNBC trashing Trump are no different than the folks on FOX News (looking at you Hannity) trashing Kiersten Sinema as some far left something er rather in an effort to get Martha McSally elected... her voting record is more in line with Joe Manchin of West Virginia and she votes with Trump and the Republicans some of the time! She’s hardly far left. The folks on FOX will spend 95% of their time decrying the left and liberals and other boogeyman and little to no time talking about Trump accomplishments and why we need x plan beyond talking points repeated ad nauseum. So both sides of the partisan part of the media are gonna trash the other side to suit their goals. It’s what their respective bases want to hear. MSNBC is the liberal equivalent of FOX News. It’s viewers are in tune with what’s going on in the primary and also want some red (maybe blue?) meat thrown at them by their favorite hosts. The rest of the media (say the AP, NPR, Reuters etc.) is focused on New Hampshire and the debate tonight and the primary on Tuesday. If you want to get an idea of the oxygen that’s being sucked up and by who look there. MSNBC or FOX won’t give you a good indicator of anything beyond how the partisans are thinking and the goal on both channels is to keep the faithful stoked into a frenzy until November and beyond.

Is it unfortunate that impeachment overshadowed Iowa? Yes. Did the Republicans intentionally hold out on the acquittal vote to suck up some oxygen from the Democrats? Probably. But that’s how the game is played.



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Re: The Democrats' single biggest problem

Post by audiophile » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:13 am

Not to mention his name now sounds like booty-judge.


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Re: The Democrats' single biggest problem

Post by bmw » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:41 am

Rate This wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:28 am
The thing is that as this primary sorts itself out it’ll become more clear that the Democrats do have ideas and plans that are more comprehensive and thought out than Trumps, So they’ll overcome this one...
What evidence do you have to suggest that the Democrats can shift from being laser-focused on attacking Trump to focusing on their own ideas and trying to compete with him on policy instead of on personality? Democrats have an unhealthy obsession with trying to damage Trump and I see no evidence whatsoever suggesting that they're capable of changing the narrative away from one of attack-attack-attack to one of "here's our ideas and why they're better than Trump's." And as such, Trump will continue to dominate the news cycle.



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Re: The Democrats' single biggest problem

Post by Rate This » Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:09 pm

bmw wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:41 am
Rate This wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:28 am
The thing is that as this primary sorts itself out it’ll become more clear that the Democrats do have ideas and plans that are more comprehensive and thought out than Trumps, So they’ll overcome this one...
What evidence do you have to suggest that the Democrats can shift from being laser-focused on attacking Trump to focusing on their own ideas and trying to compete with him on policy instead of on personality? Democrats have an unhealthy obsession with trying to damage Trump and I see no evidence whatsoever suggesting that they're capable of changing the narrative away from one of attack-attack-attack to one of "here's our ideas and why they're better than Trump's." And as such, Trump will continue to dominate the news cycle.
I will grant you that the Republicans had the same issue when running against Obama in 2012. I don’t recall much substance there either. What it’ll end up being in attacks against Trump layered with policy proposals. Part of the problem is that Trump has made this about personality more than substance. He has very little substance and as a result he has to use personality. How could his opponents possibly simply ignore that entirely?



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Re: The Democrats' single biggest problem

Post by bmw » Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:22 pm

Trump has made it about personality, and the Democrats took the bait - hook, line, and sinker. I always laugh when I hear people talk about how Trump is a bumbling, fumbling idiot. From what I've seen the past 3 years, he's quite politically savvy. He knows exactly what buttons to push to rile up the left and he pushes those button repeatedly. He's always 2 steps ahead of the left AND he dominates the news cycle. Democrats, blinded by their own hatred for Trump, have still not yet figured out how to get around this.



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Re: The Democrats' single biggest problem

Post by Rate This » Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:38 pm

bmw wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:22 pm
Trump has made it about personality, and the Democrats took the bait - hook, line, and sinker. I always laugh when I hear people talk about how Trump is a bumbling, fumbling idiot. From what I've seen the past 3 years, he's quite politically savvy. He knows exactly what buttons to push to rile up the left and he pushes those button repeatedly. He's always 2 steps ahead of the left AND he dominates the news cycle. Democrats, blinded by their own hatred for Trump, have still not yet figured out how to get around this.
So one of your biggest metrics for a good leader is annoying the left? Isn’t that kind of a low bar?

What Trump does is be politically savvy. Absolutely. But he is a fumbling idiot. The problem is that all of the various scandals and incidents run together and at such a volume that nobody can stay focused. That either brilliant and on purpose or the sign of someone who is throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. But Trump doesn’t think things out enough to strategize several moves ahead. He more wings it and responds well to the pitfalls of his moves.



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Re: The Democrats' single biggest problem

Post by bmw » Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:51 pm

LOL, speaking of throwing things at the wall to see what sticks - the Democrats have been absolute masters of this over the past 3 years in regards to throwing things at Trump. Except nothing has stuck. And that's my point - Trump has the left chasing him like a dog chasing its own tail.



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Re: The Democrats' single biggest problem

Post by craig11152 » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:13 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:37 am
Trump in 2020. America adores Trump.
Some do, some see him as the lesser of two evils. America didn't "love him" in 2016 because he didn't win the popular vote. But he managed to swing 7 states from the 2012 election to get the needed electoral votes.


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Re: The Democrats' single biggest problem

Post by Rate This » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:39 pm

bmw wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:51 pm
LOL, speaking of throwing things at the wall to see what sticks - the Democrats have been absolute masters of this over the past 3 years in regards to throwing things at Trump. Except nothing has stuck. And that's my point - Trump has the left chasing him like a dog chasing its own tail.
The term pointed out to be a few minutes ago in a conversation about this is “gaslighting”. That’s what Trump and co. do to muddy the waters and move the Overton window.



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Re: The Democrats' single biggest problem

Post by bmw » Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:45 pm

Are you joking re: Overton window? The movement of that window over the past 20 years has been almost exclusively in direction of causes supported by Democrats (and accelerated by social media).



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Re: The Democrats' single biggest problem

Post by Rate This » Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:58 pm

bmw wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:45 pm
Are you joking re: Overton window? The movement of that window over the past 20 years has been almost exclusively in direction of causes supported by Democrats (and accelerated by social media).
By constantly harping on illegal immigration and witch hunts and those other almost daily things he repeats he can move the Overton window and normalize and desensitize people to them. If he does get a second term and has nothing to lose and a senate that won’t check his power the executive orders will become much more severe and draconian. You can bank on it. It’ll be now or never time for a lot of the causes he champions and might be afraid to pull the trigger on with an election looming. Previous presidents weren’t nearly as likely to use their lame duck status to this advantage. This is a man who doesn’t care about his legacy or his party or any of that stuff. Just Trump and the base or cult depending on which side you’re on. That’s dangerous.
Last edited by Rate This on Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.



bmw
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Re: The Democrats' single biggest problem

Post by bmw » Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:00 pm

craig11152 wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:13 pm
Turkeytop wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:37 am
Trump in 2020. America adores Trump.
Some do, some see him as the lesser of two evils. America didn't "love him" in 2016 because he didn't win the popular vote. But he managed to swing 7 states from the 2012 election to get the needed electoral votes.
You are correct about 2016, but today, he has a 94% approval rating among Republicans (per a recent Gallup poll). Republicans almost unanimously adore him. Democrats hate him (approval rating there at 7%). Independents have been in the mid-high 30s for most of his term, though that number has crept up into the low 40s recently.

The problem Democrats have is that they're fractured right now. Bernie supporters don't like anybody else (except some of them like Warren), blacks and Millenials don't like Buttigieg, and nobody is crazy about Biden. The only thing that unites them is their hatred of Trump. And hatred alone isn't enough to drive turnout to the levels it will undoubtedly be in the Republican party.

Bottom line the way I see it is that if Bernie or Warren get the nomination, many of those 60% of Independents who don't approve of Trump will still vote for him. If anybody else gets it, the independents may break for that other person, but turnout will be muted on the far left.



bmw
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Re: The Democrats' single biggest problem

Post by bmw » Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:08 pm

Rate This wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:58 pm
bmw wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:45 pm
Are you joking re: Overton window? The movement of that window over the past 20 years has been almost exclusively in direction of causes supported by Democrats (and accelerated by social media).
By constantly harping on illegal immigration and witch hunts and those other almost daily things he repeats he can move the Overton window and normalize and desensitize people to them. If he does get a second term and has nothing to lose and a senate that won’t check his power the executive orders will become much more severe and draconian. You can bank on it. It’ll be now or never time for a lot of the causes he champions and might be afraid to pull the trigger on with an election looming. Previous presidents weren’t nearly as likely to use their lame duck status to this advantage. This is a man who doesn’t care about that stuff. That’s dangerous.
Lots of speculation there without much evidence to back it up. The crazy lefties in here not that long ago were suggesting that if Trump loses the election, he'll have to be forcibly removed from office because he won't voluntarily leave.

btw - I'm talking mostly about social issues when it comes to the Overton window - from the legalization of gay marriage to the legalization of marijuana to the normalization of transgenders to the ever-increasing tolerance for raunchy humor and behavior on network television. And things that used to be acceptable but no longer are, such as making jokes about fat people, disciplining children with some degree of physical force, etc. Literally every movement in the realm of what is considered acceptable social behavior has trended in the direction of causes supported by Democrats.



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