Acceptable registrations in the queue through March 16 at 11:00a ET have now been activated. Enjoy! -M.W.

Terms of Use have been amended effective October 6, 2019. Make sure you are aware of the new rules! Please visit this thread for details: https://www.mibuzzboard.com/phpBB3/view ... 16&t=48619

Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Debate and discussion of current events and political issues across the U.S. and throughout the World. Be forewarned -- this forum is NOT for the intellectually weak or those of you with thin skins. Don't come crying to me if you become the subject of ridicule. **Board Administrator reserves the right to revoke posting privileges based on my sole discretion**
Deleted User 8570

Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:39 pm

The male labor force participation rate is down to 88% from the 97% it peaked at in 1954. Automation and to a lesser extent outsourcing have contributed to the decline. Pretty interesting little article:
WASHINGTON (AP) — If President-elect Donald Trump is going to meet his pledge to energize the U.S. economy, there's a simple yet tough way to do so: Put more men to work.

The proportion of men in their prime working years who either have a job or are looking for one has been dropping for decades — and limiting economic growth in the process.

The full brunt of the 60-year decline burst into view during the 2016 election. Trump triumphed in part by vowing to restore jobs at steel mills, auto plants and coal mines — the types of work that had once employed legions of men who lacked a college education.

Bringing more non-college-educated men into the workforce is a Herculean challenge that has long bedeviled economists. Among the root causes:

— Automation. Factory robots and computer software have eliminated the need for many workers, wiping out an array of jobs that once provided a middle class lifestyle.

— Global competition. U.S. workers have been competing for jobs with cheaper foreign workers, a trend that's led to some offshoring of jobs and curbed pay in some industries.

— Criminal records. Stricter criminal laws have left over 20 million Americans with felony convictions and prison records — a fourfold increase from 30 years earlier. That background has made it hard for them to get hired.

— Prescription drug use. Nearly half of jobless men who are no longer looking for work are on pain medication, research has found.

Still, Trump appears to endorse a straightforward fix: Bump up economic growth, and workers will land good jobs at decent wages.

"Many are dropping out of the labor force because they cannot find good-paying jobs in an economy operating near stall-speed," the Trump campaign said before the election.

To chart the problem and any progress Trump might achieve over the next four years, his team has pointed to an obscure gauge called the "labor force participation rate." This is the proportion of people who are either working or looking for work. It excludes anyone who's stopped searching for a job.

In the government's monthly jobs report being released Friday, it's a number that draws secondary billing after the unemployment rate and job creation. But beneath the sunny 4.6 percent jobless rate is the troubling shadow cast by the millions of men ages 25 to 54 who have dropped out of the workforce.

For this group, labor force participation has sunk to 88.5 percent from a 1954 peak of 97.9 percent. Most of that loss has occurred among men who have a high school degree or less, according to a report this year by the Obama administration. (Women's participation rate has declined less dramatically.)

The Trump team argues that it can lift the overall participation rate by reducing taxes and regulation, which it says would speed economic growth. But economists say increasing men's participation is difficult. The underlying causes are long-standing and go beyond the tax, trade and regulatory policies that Trump has attacked as the main hindrances.

For one thing, there has been a disappearance of "routine" manual jobs that required little education or high-tech skills — from machine operators to assembly line workers. These occupations have been displaced by such trends as automation and, to a lesser extent, outsourcing to lower-wage countries. The number of factory jobs has dropped 37 percent from the 1979 high to 12.3 million.

Routine manual jobs accounted for 23 percent of work in 1979, a share that fell to 15 percent by 2014, according to research by the economists Guido Matias Cortes, Henry Siu and Nir Jaimovich. They found that the loss of these jobs led many people to stop working. Those who did remain often accepted lower-paying work.

Faster economic growth might not raise the participation rate, said Siu, an economics professor at the University of British Columbia. If growth is fueled by greater use of technology, it could result in even fewer routine jobs and further depress labor force participation, he said.

On the other hand, if stronger economic growth came from improved worker skills and higher college graduation rates, labor force participation might rise.

One obstacle is that many men are unwilling to accept service sector jobs that are viewed as lower-paying women's work — from cooks to home health aides — said Betsey Stevenson, an economist at the University of Michigan who worked in the Obama administration.

"We are adding lots of jobs in the service sector, and the goods sector is shrinking," Stevenson said. "Trump can't really fix that because the magnitude of the decline is so big. He might keep some factory jobs for now. But technological change will prevent him from making that a true engine of job growth."

Stevenson said that avoiding a recession would at least help stabilize the participation rate. Many workers 50 or older who lost jobs during or after the Great Recession couldn't find another and eventually stopped looking. Their exodus from the labor force lowered the participation rate.

Still, other social forces, from mass incarceration to poor health, have contributed to the declining participation rate. Nicholas Eberstadt, an economist at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, notes that roughly 23 million Americans have felony convictions.

Having a prison record makes an American man three times as likely to drop out of the labor force compared with a man with no arrests, Eberstadt said.

Health problems and the opioid epidemic may also be a major barrier to work, according to research by Alan Krueger, a Princeton economist and former Obama adviser. Nearly half of men ages 25 through 54 who are neither working nor looking for work take pain medication daily, Krueger found.

All of which means the Trump administration might have to embrace a broader effort to increase labor force participation, one that addresses public health problems, the many Americans with criminal records and the displacement caused by increased use of technology.

However it might be achieved, the benefits from any rise in labor force participation could be substantial, said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, a former director of the Congressional Budget Office and now president of the center-right American Action Forum. Increasing the participation rate would serve both the economy and individual Americans.

"In terms of genuinely helping things, this is the place you really want to go," Holtz-Eakin said.



User avatar
TC Talks
Posts: 10103
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:41 am

Re: Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Post by TC Talks » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:37 am

One of my friends in Grayling builds those robots. Trump better not go after robots, he'll put the robot builders out of work...


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

User avatar
Plate Cap
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:18 am
Location: After the rectifier stack

Re: Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Post by Plate Cap » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:06 pm

I know it's not politically correct to say things like this.....but:

Why would someone get up and go to work every day when there are options to receive money if you choose not to?

All you have to do is lower your expectations of lifestyle, blame those that are indeed willing to work for taking all the money, and point to various racial and social issues as the reason. Politicians wisely pander to these groups, giving them false hopes in exchange for votes, all the while having no intention whatsoever of changing anything.

When we grow the courage to address some of these matters, thing will get a little better. There will always be 'the poor', but perhaps fewer that are comfortable with it if there are less options.


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

Deleted User 8570

Re: Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:11 pm

Plate Cap wrote:I know it's not politically correct to say things like this.....but:

Why would someone get up and go to work every day when there are options to receive money if you choose not to?

All you have to do is lower your expectations of lifestyle, blame those that are indeed willing to work for taking all the money, and point to various racial and social issues as the reason. Politicians wisely pander to these groups, giving them false hopes in exchange for votes, all the while having no intention whatsoever of changing anything.

When we grow the courage to address some of these matters, thing will get a little better. There will always be 'the poor', but perhaps fewer that are comfortable with it if there are less options.
Nobody is actually "comfortable with it"...



User avatar
Bryce
Posts: 7141
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:04 pm

Re: Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Post by Bryce » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:27 pm

Not so sure about that NS. People.considered in poverty today have a better standard of living and have more "things" than many working class people.had less than 100 years ago.

Not sure your blanket statement is entirely true.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

User avatar
Plate Cap
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:18 am
Location: After the rectifier stack

Re: Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Post by Plate Cap » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:49 pm

NS8401 wrote: Nobody is actually "comfortable with it"...
Of course not; I did not fully 'flesh' that out properly.

Handouts need to have their permanent nature removed, and instead be modified into a temporary hand-up instead, metered and accounted with limitations, and require willingness to participate in re-education, work of some nature, or other alternative other than simply spending it.

Witness unemployment money: In the late 70s you had to show up, stand in line, show that you were willing, able, and actually looking for work in order to receive a check.

It's a tall order, probably requiring a great deal of oversight, and some people absolutely unwilling to cooperate might get in some serious trouble (i.e. starve), but the present system sure isn't working.

We need to install and make clear the understanding that a continuing legacy of simply choosing not to work is unacceptable. We have lost that concept, with proponents who are uncomfortable cutting people off when it's pretty clear that they can work and won't simply directing others to continue to pay them.


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

A1B1C1D1
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:21 pm

Re: Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Post by A1B1C1D1 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:08 pm

In the 70's, the middle class wasn't shrinking, many workers were able to find a paralell job after periods of unemployment. Now some people (think Electrolux in Greenville) go from $17 to $10 an hour after periods of unemployment. Factor in higher insurance costs and higher deductibles as well.

The middle class didn't shrink under Carter even. In a weird twist, many Americans saw their wages rise slightly (or benefits that would be paid for later) with inflation while their mortgage payment was fixed. Wages and employment surged in the 80s.

Will the middle class grow under Trump, or continue shrinking. I recently purchased a $20 ACDelco air filter (Mexico) for my car because it was recommended. My Flanders (USA) furnace filters were $5. I understand this is apples and oranges, ACD has high R&D and most of their engineers are in Eastern Michigan. Still, Americans would do this work. Mostly imported items at Dollar Tree aren't going away, but there are many high end items that could profitably be made here.

EDIT: As for drug use, I recall the liquid lunch being more common 40 years ago then today. More people smoked, and when they had surgery they spent more time recuperating in the hospital. Of course heroin and pot were certainly around. I reject that people have worse habits today then they did 40 years ago. The population is not as unhealthy overall as some claim.



Deleted User 8570

Re: Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:30 pm

Bryce wrote:Not so sure about that NS. People.considered in poverty today have a better standard of living and have more "things" than many working class people.had less than 100 years ago.

Not sure your blanket statement is entirely true.
Not sure you can compare the two... poverty 100 years ago is similar to poverty in India or China today. Factor in the safety net we have developed which raised the ability for people to survive. The working class and poor are also much more synonymous now than they were 100 years ago. Two folks working at a fast food restaurant aren't going to be making it without assistance. There just aren't enough quality jobs to not have these programs. Sure Education is good but it's not a cure.



Deleted User 8570

Re: Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:31 pm

A1B1C1D1 wrote:In the 70's, the middle class wasn't shrinking, many workers were able to find a paralell job after periods of unemployment. Now some people (think Electrolux in Greenville) go from $17 to $10 an hour after periods of unemployment. Factor in higher insurance costs and higher deductibles as well.

The middle class didn't shrink under Carter even. In a weird twist, many Americans saw their wages rise slightly (or benefits that would be paid for later) with inflation while their mortgage payment was fixed. Wages and employment surged in the 80s.

Will the middle class grow under Trump, or continue shrinking. I recently purchased a $20 ACDelco air filter (Mexico) for my car because it was recommended. My Flanders (USA) furnace filters were $5. I understand this is apples and oranges, ACD has high R&D and most of their engineers are in Eastern Michigan. Still, Americans would do this work. Mostly imported items at Dollar Tree aren't going away, but there are many high end items that could profitably be made here.

EDIT: As for drug use, I recall the liquid lunch being more common 40 years ago then today. More people smoked, and when they had surgery they spent more time recuperating in the hospital. Of course heroin and pot were certainly around. I reject that people have worse habits today then they did 40 years ago. The population is not as unhealthy overall as some claim.
The media has blown a lot of problems we have out of proportion making things seem much worse than they are. Things are actually not that bad.



User avatar
Turkeytop
Posts: 8854
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:24 pm

A1B1C1D1 wrote:In the 70's, the middle class wasn't shrinking, many workers were able to find a paralell job after periods of unemployment. Now some people (think Electrolux in Greenville) go from $17 to $10 an hour after periods of unemployment. Factor in higher insurance costs and higher deductibles as well.

The middle class didn't shrink under Carter even. In a weird twist, many Americans saw their wages rise slightly (or benefits that would be paid for later) with inflation while their mortgage payment was fixed. Wages and employment surged in the 80s.

Will the middle class grow under Trump, or continue shrinking. I recently purchased a $20 ACDelco air filter (Mexico) for my car because it was recommended. My Flanders (USA) furnace filters were $5. I understand this is apples and oranges, ACD has high R&D and most of their engineers are in Eastern Michigan. Still, Americans would do this work. Mostly imported items at Dollar Tree aren't going away, but there are many high end items that could profitably be made here.

EDIT: As for drug use, I recall the liquid lunch being more common 40 years ago then today. More people smoked, and when they had surgery they spent more time recuperating in the hospital. Of course heroin and pot were certainly around. I reject that people have worse habits today then they did 40 years ago. The population is not as unhealthy overall as some claim.

Really tired of all the whining about the shrinking middle class. The middle class has only itself to blame. They continually expel their own members. It's the only social class that sets a minmum income threshold for admission. Someone falls below that arbitrary level, they get kicked out.

The working class has no income threshold or no income ceiling. We welcome everyone regardless of their income level. We don't measure the success or failure of our class by the growth or the shrinkage of our numbers.


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.

Deleted User 8570

Re: Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:56 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
A1B1C1D1 wrote:In the 70's, the middle class wasn't shrinking, many workers were able to find a paralell job after periods of unemployment. Now some people (think Electrolux in Greenville) go from $17 to $10 an hour after periods of unemployment. Factor in higher insurance costs and higher deductibles as well.

The middle class didn't shrink under Carter even. In a weird twist, many Americans saw their wages rise slightly (or benefits that would be paid for later) with inflation while their mortgage payment was fixed. Wages and employment surged in the 80s.

Will the middle class grow under Trump, or continue shrinking. I recently purchased a $20 ACDelco air filter (Mexico) for my car because it was recommended. My Flanders (USA) furnace filters were $5. I understand this is apples and oranges, ACD has high R&D and most of their engineers are in Eastern Michigan. Still, Americans would do this work. Mostly imported items at Dollar Tree aren't going away, but there are many high end items that could profitably be made here.

EDIT: As for drug use, I recall the liquid lunch being more common 40 years ago then today. More people smoked, and when they had surgery they spent more time recuperating in the hospital. Of course heroin and pot were certainly around. I reject that people have worse habits today then they did 40 years ago. The population is not as unhealthy overall as some claim.

Really tired of all the whining about the shrinking middle class. The middle class has only itself to blame. They continually expel their own members. It's the only social class that sets a minmum income threshold for admission. Someone falls below that arbitrary level, they get kicked out.

The working class has no income threshold or no income ceiling. We welcome everyone regardless of their income level. We don't measure the success or failure of our class by the growth or the shrinkage of our numbers.
At least in the American sense it goes:
Working
Middle
Upper

So whatever the threshold for middle is if you're below that you go into the lower class or working if you want to be a bit more PC about it.

Then the middle has lower, middle and upper sections.

Above a certain point you are upper class. The vast expansion of the middle class in the middle of the 20th century caused some redefinition of terms...



TC Shuts Up
Posts: 2314
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:10 pm

Re: Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Post by TC Shuts Up » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:27 am

Edited.
Last edited by TC Shuts Up on Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:02 am, edited 3 times in total.


Disagreeing with Communists is NOT an impeachable offense.

Never eat Sushi past its expiration date.

Those who refuse to drain the swamp are doomed to drown in it.

TC Shuts Up
Posts: 2314
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:10 pm

Re: Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Post by TC Shuts Up » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:28 am

The Upper Class is also shrinking. They used to say the Top 3 percent, now they say much less than one percent. This is because of the shrinking of the numbers of highly paid managers and professionals, and smaller than big businesses being merged or put out of business by big business.

High School used to teach material that now is shifted to college. White Males are now the oppressed in college, and for that reason, Females now greatly outnumber Males. A college degree is NOT necessary to do many jobs. A White Male who finishes college today has been brainwashed with Political Correctness, and is much more submissive and compliant with Human Resources, which has been taken over by Females who enforce rules that often don't make any sense at all. They also lie though their teeth about what employee manuals, often only completely revealed in litigation under gag orders, actually say.

State and Community Colleges should be FORCED BY LAW to at least ADMIT AS NON CANDIDATES FOR DEGREE the people they are now discriminating against and arbitrarily expelling without due process. Upon satisfactory completion of required course work, these colleges should be FORCED to issue degrees associated with the course work completed to these students who are now discriminated against. All testing should be objective, and test subjects blind to the professors to prevent discrimination against ANY student of ANY RACE, CREED, RELIGION, POLITICAL PERSUASION, COLOR, GENDER OR ORIENTATION.

Full Police powers should be STRIPPED from Campus Police and College Administrators and returned to State and Municipal Departments. Colleges should be FORBIDDEN to incorporate as Cities to circumvent these restrictions.


Disagreeing with Communists is NOT an impeachable offense.

Never eat Sushi past its expiration date.

Those who refuse to drain the swamp are doomed to drown in it.

User avatar
Calvert DeForest
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:14 pm
Location: The corner of US-16 and M-78

Re: Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Post by Calvert DeForest » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:58 am

The number of people pursuing skilled trades is also shrinking. Saw a recent conversation between Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs) and Norm Abram (This Old House) on this very subject. Nothing against college education (I have one), but it's pushed so hard these days that fewer people are pursuing construction and maintenance careers that can be achieved with a high school diploma and specialized training. Many of these jobs are still high-paying and very much in-demand. My neighbor is a lineman for Consumers Energy and pulls down six figures. Pretty hazardous job, and not one a lot of people would want (although he loves it), but somebody has to keep our lights on.


Shortwave is the ORIGINAL satellite radio.

User avatar
Turkeytop
Posts: 8854
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: Trump's Challenge: Put Men Back To Work

Post by Turkeytop » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:59 pm

TC Shuts Up wrote:The Upper Class is also shrinking. They used to say the Top 3 percent, now they say much less than one percent. This is because of the shrinking of the numbers of highly paid managers and professionals, and smaller than big businesses being merged or put out of business by big business.
Again. The upper class has only itself to blame for its shrinkage. They impose an arbitrary income threshold for admission and keep raising the bar every year.

When did class become equated with income? There are many low income people with far more class than the Bernie Madoffs and the Donald Trumps of the world.


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic