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Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

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Deleted User 8570

Re: Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:28 am

MWmetalhead wrote:Why aren't the proponents being forthright with regard to the economic projections of the RTA???

How come we aren't seeing how much money is projected to come from homeowners versus business owners?
What is the reason for the Detroit and SMART bus systems not merging?

Seems to me the proponents are trying to "ram this through" with as few details as possible. What are they hiding?
They aren't even merged in a place like Chicago where mass transit is extremely strong.



Matt
Posts: 1462
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:18 pm
Location: Ann Arbor

Re: Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

Post by Matt » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:37 am

NS8401 wrote:
craig11152 wrote:
NS8401 wrote:
craig11152 wrote:As a Washtenaw County resident I will vote no. I am happy paying for the AAATA, a service I never use because it helps a small number of my neighbors. A large number of those buses are mostly empty most of the time. Only a couple runs at prime commute time actually fill up. I do not want to pay for people who are NOT my neighbors.
Plus in the case of Washtenaw County we aren't getting much in the package.
You obviously don't understand how the mechanics and economics of busing works...
actually I do understand the economics of busing at the AAATA. Each fare only covers about 17% of the cost of the ride. BUT as I indicated I am OK with that in my city in my county.

Now tell me what I don't understand about the mechanics?
I was speaking of why the buses run empty sometimes and don't go back to the garage. There's a logical and logistical reason for it even if it appears inefficient on the surface. Many of the runs get full more than twice a day by the way. It's a well used service.

Washtenaw county gets connected to the other two systems. The whole point is to unite everything so the region has a seemless pubic system. It's the way every large city except us does it. AAATA is now a county wide entity too so it's not just your city anyways. That ship has sailed.
The AAAAAAAAAAAAAATA vote should have gone the other way. What a crock of shit and waste of money for Ann Arbor residents...



Deleted User 8570

Re: Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:01 am

Matt wrote:
NS8401 wrote:
craig11152 wrote:
NS8401 wrote:
craig11152 wrote:As a Washtenaw County resident I will vote no. I am happy paying for the AAATA, a service I never use because it helps a small number of my neighbors. A large number of those buses are mostly empty most of the time. Only a couple runs at prime commute time actually fill up. I do not want to pay for people who are NOT my neighbors.
Plus in the case of Washtenaw County we aren't getting much in the package.
You obviously don't understand how the mechanics and economics of busing works...
actually I do understand the economics of busing at the AAATA. Each fare only covers about 17% of the cost of the ride. BUT as I indicated I am OK with that in my city in my county.

Now tell me what I don't understand about the mechanics?
I was speaking of why the buses run empty sometimes and don't go back to the garage. There's a logical and logistical reason for it even if it appears inefficient on the surface. Many of the runs get full more than twice a day by the way. It's a well used service.

Washtenaw county gets connected to the other two systems. The whole point is to unite everything so the region has a seemless pubic system. It's the way every large city except us does it. AAATA is now a county wide entity too so it's not just your city anyways. That ship has sailed.
The AAAAAAAAAAAAAATA vote should have gone the other way. What a crock of shit and waste of money for Ann Arbor residents...
You live in an extremely liberal town where such things are extremely popular... deal with it.



User avatar
craig11152
Posts: 1673
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:15 am
Location: Ann Arbor

Re: Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

Post by craig11152 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:32 am

NS8401 wrote:
craig11152 wrote:
NS8401 wrote:
craig11152 wrote:As a Washtenaw County resident I will vote no. I am happy paying for the AAATA, a service I never use because it helps a small number of my neighbors. A large number of those buses are mostly empty most of the time. Only a couple runs at prime commute time actually fill up. I do not want to pay for people who are NOT my neighbors.
Plus in the case of Washtenaw County we aren't getting much in the package.
You obviously don't understand how the mechanics and economics of busing works...
actually I do understand the economics of busing at the AAATA. Each fare only covers about 17% of the cost of the ride. BUT as I indicated I am OK with that in my city in my county.

Now tell me what I don't understand about the mechanics?
I was speaking of why the buses run empty sometimes and don't go back to the garage. There's a logical and logistical reason for it even if it appears inefficient on the surface. Many of the runs get full more than twice a day by the way. It's a well used service.
Tell me where you see me suggesting an empty bus go back to the garage. For the life of me I can't find that suggestion from me. I merely said a lot of buses are mostly empty during the day. I made no suggestion about those empty buses going to the garage. But maybe it does help explain why the AAATA farebox recovery ratio isn't higher. Or maybe you have a better explanation?


I no longer directly engage trolls

Deleted User 8570

Re: Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:03 am

craig11152 wrote:
NS8401 wrote:
craig11152 wrote:
NS8401 wrote:
craig11152 wrote:As a Washtenaw County resident I will vote no. I am happy paying for the AAATA, a service I never use because it helps a small number of my neighbors. A large number of those buses are mostly empty most of the time. Only a couple runs at prime commute time actually fill up. I do not want to pay for people who are NOT my neighbors.
Plus in the case of Washtenaw County we aren't getting much in the package.
You obviously don't understand how the mechanics and economics of busing works...
actually I do understand the economics of busing at the AAATA. Each fare only covers about 17% of the cost of the ride. BUT as I indicated I am OK with that in my city in my county.

Now tell me what I don't understand about the mechanics?
I was speaking of why the buses run empty sometimes and don't go back to the garage. There's a logical and logistical reason for it even if it appears inefficient on the surface. Many of the runs get full more than twice a day by the way. It's a well used service.
Tell me where you see me suggesting an empty bus go back to the garage. For the life of me I can't find that suggestion from me. I merely said a lot of buses are mostly empty during the day. I made no suggestion about those empty buses going to the garage. But maybe it does help explain why the AAATA farebox recovery ratio isn't higher. Or maybe you have a better explanation?
Its a service. Asking it to make money is like asking the post office to make money.



User avatar
craig11152
Posts: 1673
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:15 am
Location: Ann Arbor

Re: Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

Post by craig11152 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:41 pm

NS8401 wrote: Its a service. Asking it to make money is like asking the post office to make money.
Clearly I've hit a raw nerve because you are normally smarter than this......where did I ask it to make money? Where did I suggest the farebox recovery ratio be at or over 100%? The answer is I DIDN"T

But I believe AAATA farebox recovery rate is a fair amount below the national average. Its way below some of the more successful mass transit systems in the U.S. Rather than rely on passengers to pay their way to a greater degree we tax the crap out of people who don't use the system to subsidize those who do at a greater rate than the national average. So when I see AAATA farebox recovery ratios around 17% , Detroit at 14% and several systems in the US well above 40%, some over 50% it gives me pause. It makes me think they could do better by "we the people"


I no longer directly engage trolls

Deleted User 8570

Re: Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:17 pm

craig11152 wrote:
NS8401 wrote: Its a service. Asking it to make money is like asking the post office to make money.
Clearly I've hit a raw nerve because you are normally smarter than this......where did I ask it to make money? Where did I suggest the farebox recovery ratio be at or over 100%? The answer is I DIDN"T

But I believe AAATA farebox recovery rate is a fair amount below the national average. Its way below some of the more successful mass transit systems in the U.S. Rather than rely on passengers to pay their way to a greater degree we tax the crap out of people who don't use the system to subsidize those who do at a greater rate than the national average. So when I see AAATA farebox recovery ratios around 17% , Detroit at 14% and several systems in the US well above 40%, some over 50% it gives me pause. It makes me think they could do better by "we the people"
They have a H*** contract with U of M too so factor that in... it's not reflected in farebox numbers...



Matt
Posts: 1462
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:18 pm
Location: Ann Arbor

Re: Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

Post by Matt » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:28 pm

NS8401 wrote:
Matt wrote:
NS8401 wrote:
craig11152 wrote:
NS8401 wrote:
craig11152 wrote:As a Washtenaw County resident I will vote no. I am happy paying for the AAATA, a service I never use because it helps a small number of my neighbors. A large number of those buses are mostly empty most of the time. Only a couple runs at prime commute time actually fill up. I do not want to pay for people who are NOT my neighbors.
Plus in the case of Washtenaw County we aren't getting much in the package.
You obviously don't understand how the mechanics and economics of busing works...
actually I do understand the economics of busing at the AAATA. Each fare only covers about 17% of the cost of the ride. BUT as I indicated I am OK with that in my city in my county.

Now tell me what I don't understand about the mechanics?
I was speaking of why the buses run empty sometimes and don't go back to the garage. There's a logical and logistical reason for it even if it appears inefficient on the surface. Many of the runs get full more than twice a day by the way. It's a well used service.

Washtenaw county gets connected to the other two systems. The whole point is to unite everything so the region has a seemless pubic system. It's the way every large city except us does it. AAATA is now a county wide entity too so it's not just your city anyways. That ship has sailed.
The AAAAAAAAAAAAAATA vote should have gone the other way. What a crock of shit and waste of money for Ann Arbor residents...
You live in an extremely liberal town where such things are extremely popular... deal with it.
Ann Arbor is not a liberal city. It is a Democrat elite city... H*** difference...



Matt
Posts: 1462
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:18 pm
Location: Ann Arbor

Re: Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

Post by Matt » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:28 pm

NS8401 wrote:
Matt wrote:
NS8401 wrote:
craig11152 wrote:
NS8401 wrote:
craig11152 wrote:As a Washtenaw County resident I will vote no. I am happy paying for the AAATA, a service I never use because it helps a small number of my neighbors. A large number of those buses are mostly empty most of the time. Only a couple runs at prime commute time actually fill up. I do not want to pay for people who are NOT my neighbors.
Plus in the case of Washtenaw County we aren't getting much in the package.
You obviously don't understand how the mechanics and economics of busing works...
actually I do understand the economics of busing at the AAATA. Each fare only covers about 17% of the cost of the ride. BUT as I indicated I am OK with that in my city in my county.

Now tell me what I don't understand about the mechanics?
I was speaking of why the buses run empty sometimes and don't go back to the garage. There's a logical and logistical reason for it even if it appears inefficient on the surface. Many of the runs get full more than twice a day by the way. It's a well used service.

Washtenaw county gets connected to the other two systems. The whole point is to unite everything so the region has a seemless pubic system. It's the way every large city except us does it. AAATA is now a county wide entity too so it's not just your city anyways. That ship has sailed.
The AAAAAAAAAAAAAATA vote should have gone the other way. What a crock of shit and waste of money for Ann Arbor residents...
You live in an extremely liberal town where such things are extremely popular... deal with it.
Ann Arbor is not a liberal city. It is a Democrat elite city... H*** difference...



User avatar
Colonel Flagg
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

Post by Colonel Flagg » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:38 pm

Give RalphKramden8401 a break. I am certain he's doing the best he can with whatever he has to work with. :lol In any event, I am not willing to pay for a service I will never use. If it's a bus, that would mean a long, cold walk in the winter down Telegraph in my golashes to wherever that bus may stop (Maple Rd?) may be. I don't know. If we are talking light rail, then how am I getting there? My guess is, I'll be getting the car out, and driving somewhere to catch the train. Then, I'll park the car in a lot at the train station, as some people do in suburban Chicagoland, and wait for the train. With that amount of time and rigmarole involved, I may as well just drive the rest of the way to work. If you want mass transit, then find a way pay for it yourself. If it's such a great idea, that shouldn't be a problem. Right?


"Nobody can get the truth out of me because even I don't know what it is. I keep myself in a constant state of utter confusion."

Deleted User 8570

Re: Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:51 pm

Colonel Flagg wrote:Give RalphKramden8401 a break. I am certain he's doing the best he can with whatever he has to work with. :lol In any event, I am not willing to pay for a service I will never use. If it's a bus, that would mean a long, cold walk in the winter down Telegraph in my golashes to wherever that bus may stop (Maple Rd?) may be. I don't know. If we are talking light rail, then how am I getting there? My guess is, I'll be getting the car out, and driving somewhere to catch the train. Then, I'll park the car in a lot at the train station, as some people do in suburban Chicagoland, and wait for the train. With that amount of time and rigmarole involved, I may as well just drive the rest of the way to work. If you want mass transit, then find a way pay for it yourself. If it's such a great idea, that shouldn't be a problem. Right?
Why is it that we drag our heels on this stuff and everybody else just does it?



Deleted User 8570

Re: Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:52 pm

Matt wrote:
NS8401 wrote:
Matt wrote:
NS8401 wrote:
craig11152 wrote:
NS8401 wrote:
craig11152 wrote:As a Washtenaw County resident I will vote no. I am happy paying for the AAATA, a service I never use because it helps a small number of my neighbors. A large number of those buses are mostly empty most of the time. Only a couple runs at prime commute time actually fill up. I do not want to pay for people who are NOT my neighbors.
Plus in the case of Washtenaw County we aren't getting much in the package.
You obviously don't understand how the mechanics and economics of busing works...
actually I do understand the economics of busing at the AAATA. Each fare only covers about 17% of the cost of the ride. BUT as I indicated I am OK with that in my city in my county.

Now tell me what I don't understand about the mechanics?
I was speaking of why the buses run empty sometimes and don't go back to the garage. There's a logical and logistical reason for it even if it appears inefficient on the surface. Many of the runs get full more than twice a day by the way. It's a well used service.

Washtenaw county gets connected to the other two systems. The whole point is to unite everything so the region has a seemless pubic system. It's the way every large city except us does it. AAATA is now a county wide entity too so it's not just your city anyways. That ship has sailed.
The AAAAAAAAAAAAAATA vote should have gone the other way. What a crock of shit and waste of money for Ann Arbor residents...
You live in an extremely liberal town where such things are extremely popular... deal with it.
Ann Arbor is not a liberal city. It is a Democrat elite city... H*** difference...
Half are Republicans that couldn't win with an R next to their name...



User avatar
craig11152
Posts: 1673
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:15 am
Location: Ann Arbor

Re: Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

Post by craig11152 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:54 pm

NS8401 wrote: They have a H*** contract with U of M too so factor that in... it's not reflected in farebox numbers...
It is in my estimates and the tax payers own the University. So when the University strikes a deal it is still the tax payers footing the bill.


I no longer directly engage trolls

Deleted User 8570

Re: Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:51 pm

craig11152 wrote:
NS8401 wrote: They have a H*** contract with U of M too so factor that in... it's not reflected in farebox numbers...
It is in my estimates and the tax payers own the University. So when the University strikes a deal it is still the tax payers footing the bill.
True but they are a billion dollar business too... it probably makes some money...

I was just thinking (not really at you Craig) that in "the good old days when folks made it on their own", collectivism and helping lift everyone up was the order of the day... this not helping other folks because they need to go it alone is all new thinking relatively speaking...



Matt
Posts: 1462
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:18 pm
Location: Ann Arbor

Re: Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan

Post by Matt » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:05 pm

craig11152 wrote:
NS8401 wrote: They have a H*** contract with U of M too so factor that in... it's not reflected in farebox numbers...
It is in my estimates and the tax payers own the University. So when the University strikes a deal it is still the tax payers footing the bill.
Nope. The taxpayers are an extreme minority share in the university: http://obp.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads ... _16-17.pdf



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