Acceptable registrations in the queue through March 16 at 11:00a ET have now been activated. Enjoy! -M.W.

Terms of Use have been amended effective October 6, 2019. Make sure you are aware of the new rules! Please visit this thread for details: https://www.mibuzzboard.com/phpBB3/view ... 16&t=48619

"Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Debate and discussion of current events and political issues across the U.S. and throughout the World. Be forewarned -- this forum is NOT for the intellectually weak or those of you with thin skins. Don't come crying to me if you become the subject of ridicule. **Board Administrator reserves the right to revoke posting privileges based on my sole discretion**
User avatar
Honeyman
Posts: 5772
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:44 pm

"Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Post by Honeyman » Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:13 am

An interesting article written by that flaming liberal.......Newt Gingrich:

https://www.gingrich360.com/2022/11/30/ ... ent-biden/


The censorship king from out of state.

User avatar
TC Talks
Posts: 10103
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:41 am

Re: "Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Post by TC Talks » Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:45 am

Well his union busting stunt certainly proves he can act like a Republican.


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

User avatar
Lester The Nightfly
Posts: 1727
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:19 pm

Re: "Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Post by Lester The Nightfly » Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:32 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:45 am
Well his union busting stunt certainly proves he can act like a Republican.
Biden was put in a impossible position. To not intervene was to risk tanking the economy. It would have been devastating and a lot of people would have been hurt very badly. It's one of those "greater good" situations.

I wish to God people would stop trying to make comparisons with Reagan and how he handled the air traffic controllers back in 1981. The differences are remarkable. There were only two things that saved St. Ronnie's butt. One was that the controllers were government employees. The other was he was able to leverage military resources that were essentially exactly the same as what was needed to cover the firings. Those are not a option in this dispute. Railroads are private business and there are very few in the military that know anything more about railroading than running an electric train sitting under the Christmas tree. Had Reagan not had the circumstances he had his actions would have gone the same way as what Biden is now experiencing.

I think it's worth noting that how this played out was something of a false solution. There's only one thing that's not stopping the RR workers from walking out at any time. Pensions. Sure, if they want to walk great, throw them in jail but that ain't gonna make the trains move. Nope, the nuke in the room is suspension of pensions. Too many workers are close enough to vesting all the while working for companies that look for every reason they can not to fulfill their obligations on a whim.

It's a shitty situation that Biden got pulled into. His best action would have been to lock the union reps in a room along side railroad reps, give them both a couple of juice boxes and a bag of 'Goldfish' crackers and toss the key until they worked it out.



User avatar
Turkeytop
Posts: 8854
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: "Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:41 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:45 am
Well his union busting stunt certainly proves he can act like a Republican.
He showed his true colours on the night of his inauguration by inviting serial strike breaker Bruce Springsteen to perform at his party.


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.

User avatar
Lester The Nightfly
Posts: 1727
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:19 pm

Re: "Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Post by Lester The Nightfly » Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:08 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:41 pm
TC Talks wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:45 am
Well his union busting stunt certainly proves he can act like a Republican.
He showed his true colours on the night of his inauguration by inviting serial strike breaker Bruce Springsteen to perform at his party.
My beef with Springsteen is how he was shooting his mouth on what evil, rat bastards TicketMaster were to his fans, then turning around and putting them in charge of sales for his next tour.



MotorCityRadioFreak
Posts: 6408
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:26 am
Location: Warren, MI

Re: "Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:41 pm

I don’t get what the problem is. They are getting 24% pay raises over 6 years. They had zero paid sick days and now they get one. I have worked jobs that offer none. I realize the work-life balance sucks, but they aren’t exactly poor.


They/them, non-binary and proud.

Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.

User avatar
Turkeytop
Posts: 8854
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: "Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:54 pm

MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:41 pm
I don’t get what the problem is. They are getting 24% pay raises over 6 years. They had zero paid sick days and now they get one. I have worked jobs that offer none. I realize the work-life balance sucks, but they aren’t exactly poor.
It's about taking away their right to bargain collectively.


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.

User avatar
Lester The Nightfly
Posts: 1727
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:19 pm

Re: "Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Post by Lester The Nightfly » Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:05 pm

MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:41 pm
I don’t get what the problem is. They are getting 24% pay raises over 6 years. They had zero paid sick days and now they get one. I have worked jobs that offer none. I realize the work-life balance sucks, but they aren’t exactly poor.
First, it was never about money. As I understand it, the impasse came about due to the way the rail companies administer sick days and vacation time. Again, as I understand it these workers are under 24/7/365 on-call standby status. They might have a ton of vacation time built up but it's always 'subject to change' often with little notice. If they used vacation time it too was 'subject to change'. Book a family trip? Maybe you'll get the time off, maybe you won't. The only way of insuring you'd have the time off to say, attend your daughter's wedding, with any certainty was to request the time off as a sick day. The sick day bank is considerably less than the vacation bank. Long timers might have a month of vacation time accrued but only five days of sick time (schedulable) accrued per year.

This wouldn't even be an issue if the rail companies moved to a PTO model i.e. vacation and sick days are one in the same. The rail company's balked at that citing it would raise havoc with labor scheduling. The odd thing is rail companies have literally spent millions and millions on developing sophisticated scheduling software in order to assure customers that their goods would be where and when they are supposed to be with a high degree of accuracy. In other words, the rail companies sold the notion that if Kellogg's had a railcar packed with Frosted Flakes they would be able to move it from Battle Creek to San Diego within a pretty accurate time frame. It's no small thing when you're competing for business against trucks and air services.

What the rail companies didn't do was to apply that same scheduling expertise to lessen the burden of their employees who might request a particular day and time to so they could go and watch their kid play baseball with some certainty.

I'm sure there are some nuances I missed, but that's how we got where we are as I understand it.



MotorCityRadioFreak
Posts: 6408
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:26 am
Location: Warren, MI

Re: "Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:22 pm

Lester The Nightfly wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:05 pm
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:41 pm
I don’t get what the problem is. They are getting 24% pay raises over 6 years. They had zero paid sick days and now they get one. I have worked jobs that offer none. I realize the work-life balance sucks, but they aren’t exactly poor.
First, it was never about money. As I understand it, the impasse came about due to the way the rail companies administer sick days and vacation time. Again, as I understand it these workers are under 24/7/365 on-call standby status. They might have a ton of vacation time built up but it's always 'subject to change' often with little notice. If they used vacation time it too was 'subject to change'. Book a family trip? Maybe you'll get the time off, maybe you won't. The only way of insuring you'd have the time off to say, attend your daughter's wedding, with any certainty was to request the time off as a sick day. The sick day bank is considerably less than the vacation bank. Long timers might have a month of vacation time accrued but only five days of sick time (schedulable) accrued per year.

This wouldn't even be an issue if the rail companies moved to a PTO model i.e. vacation and sick days are one in the same. The rail company's balked at that citing it would raise havoc with labor scheduling. The odd thing is rail companies have literally spent millions and millions on developing sophisticated scheduling software in order to assure customers that their goods would be where and when they are supposed to be with a high degree of accuracy. In other words, the rail companies sold the notion that if Kellogg's had a railcar packed with Frosted Flakes they would be able to move it from Battle Creek to San Diego within a pretty accurate time frame. It's no small thing when you're competing for business against trucks and air services.

What the rail companies didn't do was to apply that same scheduling expertise to lessen the burden of their employees who might request a particular day and time to so they could go and watch their kid play baseball with some certainty.

I'm sure there are some nuances I missed, but that's how we got where we are as I understand it.
That first paragraph sound almost scarily accurate to what I deal with in the call center world. But again, they got better pay. I would argue that railroad workers are essentially. Therefore, they shouldn’t have the right to strike anyways. They forced Biden’s hand. He couldn’t let the railways shut down and cause logistics nightmares two weeks before Christmas. And don’t think truckers could have picked up that slack.


They/them, non-binary and proud.

Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.

User avatar
Turkeytop
Posts: 8854
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: "Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Post by Turkeytop » Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:46 am

MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:22 pm

That first paragraph sound almost scarily accurate to what I deal with in the call center world.
With my Union, call centres are one of our fastest growing sectors for oraganizing new members.


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.

User avatar
Lester The Nightfly
Posts: 1727
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:19 pm

Re: "Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Post by Lester The Nightfly » Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:36 am

If you want to deny railroad workers the right to strike then you better be prepared to nationalize the country's rail system too. Regardless of what Congress just mandated, if rail workers decide to strike tomorrow there's not a goddamn thing the government can do about it. As I mentioned above, what are they going to do, throw 'em all in jail? Pragmatically that's not any different than allowing strikes because in both cases the trains aren't going to move, so what would be the point of it?

Teachers, law enforcement, most government employees, air traffic controllers, public transportation transit workers and handful of other workers are barred from striking because they are funded and employed by government agencies. Railroads are not, they are 'privately held' companies. No different than privately held utilities and such. You could argue that internet access provides are essential workers but the only thing that legally prevents them from walking is the lack of union representation and participation.

You can't have it both ways. Unless you're government funded or not part of the union, there's no reason workers can't strike. That's not to say you aren't going to be strongly urged to reach a settlement, but generally speaking the government has no role to play because they have no standing in the dispute. Seems to me that the only reason Biden and Congress were able to prevent the railroad workers from striking is given the uncertain economy, an argument could be made that a strike would not be in the national interest and would pose a significant threat to the safety and well being of the country. That's probably enough to ignore established rules.



Deleted User 9015

Re: "Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:58 am

Every day, more and more, I think "maybe Trump shoulda won." I mean, at least with him gargling Putin's balls we may have avoided the mess in Ukraine. Other than the supreme court, which yea it is important, what has biden done that trump wouldn't have at least done?

Biden's a real jabroni. Trump is too, but Biden's gonna want to keep sniffin around the White House until 2028. At least Biden pulled the bandage on Afghanistan.



bmw
Posts: 6724
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:02 am

Re: "Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Post by bmw » Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:47 am

Lester The Nightfly wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:36 am
You can't have it both ways. Unless you're government funded or not part of the union, there's no reason workers can't strike. That's not to say you aren't going to be strongly urged to reach a settlement, but generally speaking the government has no role to play because they have no standing in the dispute. Seems to me that the only reason Biden and Congress were able to prevent the railroad workers from striking is given the uncertain economy, an argument could be made that a strike would not be in the national interest and would pose a significant threat to the safety and well being of the country. That's probably enough to ignore established rules.
You're pretty much full of shit here. It has nothing to do with with "the national interest" or "the safety and well being of the country," but rather with regulating trade across state lines and ensuring essential transportation. Moreover, Congress has a Constitutional right to intervene.
Congress has the authority to regulate interstate commerce under Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, and the Supreme Court has ruled it can use that authority to intervene in disputes by rail labor that have the potential to affect trade across state lines. A nearly century-old law, the Railway Labor Act of 1926, gives the president the authority to intervene as well in situations where a rail strike could significantly affect essential transportation. The act has been invoked 18 times since it was signed into law.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/02/biden-s ... -days.html



User avatar
FakeAndyStuart
Posts: 486
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:07 pm
Location: MOVED! Now residing in CurmudgeonLand

Re: "Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Post by FakeAndyStuart » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:21 am

They might have a ton of vacation time built up but it's always 'subject to change' often with little notice. If they used vacation time it too was 'subject to change'. Book a family trip? Maybe you'll get the time off, maybe you won't.
My dad was a train dispatcher, covered by a union but the deal had a lot of flaws. When he retired at age 63 1/2 (disability) he had enough unused vacation time to actually cover all the months until he turned 65! This situation is fucked up - I'm not sure nationalizing the railroads is a great idea, but it seems that no one is actually negotiating fairly. The Biden admin got stuck between a rock and a hard place.



User avatar
audiophile
Posts: 8546
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:21 pm
Location: Between 88 and 108 MHz.

Re: "Quit Underestimating President Biden"

Post by audiophile » Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:22 am

Biden always had Soro's and Buffett's back, just like cancelling Keystone.

But it might backfire in big way:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... r-AA14XIZY


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic